Give Flightinfo Some Time

[Midnight Mike]

I know that this board has had rough times since Mark's untimely death, but quite frankly I am sick and tired of people not having a little patience and understanding. Its been less than a month and some people on the board think that everything should be worked out by now. It is going to be a learning experience for the new people running the board. I am by no means saying that I agree with some of the things that have changed in the last couple of weeks by the new operators, but I do think that more time is needed to work things out. People "jumping ship", and saying "take down Mark's pictures because this is no longer his board" make me sick. There are good reasons that there is a forum called "forum feedback." Use it appropriately. I bet that your comments will be taken seriously and used appropriately.

Actually, it is the change of rules that have pissed people off, you would think that in a time of change & crisis, they would hav left everything alone. People really went nuts when the non-aviation section was taken down, & in such a rude manner, even the way the section was put back up was rude.

As far as time, we, can give them some more time, what the hell....

 

[Beertini]

No moderator has answered the question why all of these weird member limbo bannings have occurred. For instance, TonyC's member profile was non-existent on the aviator list yesterday.

What is up with all of that? Why hasn't anyone in charge answered the questions running around this board? (Most importantly, why Chperplt, TonyC, Flechas, etc. were placed in a state of limbo).

I'm sure this wasn't magic. Somebody did something to make this happen. I can assure you that it wasn't me. Fess up!

That is all (for now).


Beertini

 

[siucavflight]

jackatron,
I think that your avatar pretty much sums up all of the mods and new owners feelings towards this board.

 

[jackotron]

jackatron,
I think that your avatar pretty much sums up all of the mods and new owners feelings towards this board.

Well certainly it does not sum up my feelings.

I don't know if you know this or not, but my avatar is kind of a joke. Russia was communist. The communist party was over-thrown. Therefore "The Party's Over." Get it? I thought you would.

Jack

 

[Pedro]

Well, the party is over at Flinfo too, get it?

 

[siucavflight]

Well certainly it does not sum up my feelings.

I don't know if you know this or not, but my avatar is kind of a joke. Russia was communist. The communist party was over-thrown. Therefore "The Party's Over." Get it? I thought you would.

Jack

I get it, but it is also very fitting to this board as well.

 

[A Squared]

Why was Tony C banned?

Why was he given a "stealth" ban instead of a traditional banning?

 

[Tram]

It's the end of the Flightinfo as we know it.......

(sung to "it's the end of the world as we know it")

 

[banned username 1]

I posted this in another thread but it answers (or attempts to) some of the questions being raised here. As an addendum, I am looking into Chopper Pilot's situation to get the facts from all the players.
*********************************************************


As fellow pilots and long-time posters who've given a lot to the success of this board, I'll talk to you as though we're sitting in the back of our favorite bar, and we're having some beers- you're buying, of course.

Let's get right to a couple of names that have been dropped in postings above: TonyC and Chopper Pilot (sorry, I never can get his shorthand right, so I'll have to spell it out longhand). I have a small PM dialog with both gentlemen and enjoy our rapport. For TonyC, he is a registered user at this time, and is free to post at his pleasure. Chopper Pilot (and his descendants) are in the banned category. As I understand, he and the websitemaster got crossways somehow and the websitemaster was threatened with legal action because of it. There you go. I make no judgements about it- there you go. Now, to the larger picture.

As one of my brothers said above, it's only the internet, and there are other posts attempting to bring issues into perspective, but here's really the bottom line: this board started out hoping to become a business, I'm sure. As these things go, it became a labor of love for Mark. It was supported by Mark's partners, who are now the "owners" if you will, of FlightInfo. As supportive to the memory of Mark as they are, this board is STILL a business to them, and as such, the realities of business can't be denied. It costs something to run and should at least have its expenses covered. Right now (and for many years) it isn't covering expenses- it's coming out of someone's pocket, and that pocket is Administrator's and Websitemaster's. Please try and put yourself in their place when you are paying the bills yourself and people are attacking you on the very forum you're paying to support! Think what it must feel like when a person who's been posting for free (and you're paying the freight) threatens you with a lawsuit! I'd be hot- and you would be too.

Gentlemen and ladies, as has been pointed out, this is only the internet and only a forum by, for and about pilots and their interests. Let's keep it simple, shall we? Let's not get wrapped around the axle about things. It is unbelieveable to me the number of threats of legal action about all manner of things that otherwise (I guess) rational human beings threaten to bring about to these guys (and the mods)! Trust me, it happens.

So, I spoke about the business side of this endevor. Sadly, Mark is gone and it eventually has to stand on it's own. And it will. The day to day moderating will now be done by the moderators that you've all grown to know and love:blush:.
But, as unfortunate as some people think it is that we have to have rules, because of the actions of a few, we DO have rules, and we have to inforce them. Here's why:

In order to attract advertisers, we have to do just a couple of things. We have to raise the level of civility on this board. The personal attacks simply have to stop. The links to porn (anything above PG-13) have to stop. Things that could run somebody into legal trouble (posting scab links, "outing" somebody, posting people's names, etc) have to stop. Racist comments, sexist commentsand the like have to stop. Folks, it's not really much more complicated than that. We need to make this place advertiser friendly.

The well-meaning mistakes and miscues of the past are behind us. I want all of the participants on this board to enjoy it to the fullest, but not to the risk of spoiling it for everybody else. If anyone finds that they can't abide by the few, simple things that we ask here, then we all ask that you take your internet business elsewhere. This is one of the top aviation-related sites on the internet, and we can still make it so much more- but we need to help each other.

You've asked for answers. Here are the answers. You've asked for honesty and candor, here it is. I personally ask all of you, as either aviation professionals, or just people who love aviation to use this as another way of enjoying something that we all love. And to take care of it and guard it in the same way.

Thanks for listening,
UAL78

 

[Birdstrike]

...However, posts may not include references to racist, religious, sexual or threatening content...

UAL/et al:

Why is religious content lumped in with racist, sexual, and threatening content? With few exceptions, the religious discussions have been spirited, informative, and enjoyed by the particpants. Some of the longest and most widely read threads concerned belief issues, euthanasia, creationism, atheism, and general apologetics of the various faiths. That is non-aviation related chat with hundreds of us posting in those threads.

To unilaterally ban them, where they did not violate the previous longstanding guidelines made no sense to many of us. Then the silence from the moderator community and lack of coherent explanations just pored more fuel on the fire. Your previous longstanding rules made great sense and we abided by them. Those who didn't were booted.

With all due respect, please don't punish the many because of the actions of a very few...who aren't even with us any longer. Please reconsider the ban on all religious content, amend the rule segment quoted above, and return to the previous policy of allowing us to debate these issues in the overwhelmingly professional manner we previously enjoyed.

Thank-You,

Jeff

 

[Diesel]

Interesting the only one that has the cahones to say anything is UAL. Him and I didn't see eye to eye on a bunch of stuff but the sad fact is he is the ONLY one that has communicated with us.

The owners of the board have NOT communicated. If they had just said look we're going to have to make some changes and explain their position.

But they didn't. They made changes and like the rest of the world people resist change especially a group of type A people like ourselves.

So thank you UAL for explaining some of the situation. Shame on the current owners for not keeping the group informed. Remember without the pilots you can have all the advertisers you want but nobody will click on it.

 

[banned username 1]

Thanks Diesel and Jeff,

I know that one of the owners has been in the midst of moving across the country for the last two weeks, and you can imagine what that must be like! The other owner has been enrolled in the University of Hard Knocks, learning about the board and it's dynamics. There's a learning curve, and you all can imaging what it must be like. Remember when you first came here? I can. It was pretty daunting. Couple that with everything else.

I think that the mods are able to speak for the owners, and in fact, the owners would rather we do the communicating because love us or hate us, you at least feel like you know us. I have the luxury of some time off now and that's one reason why you've seen me be more prolific in replies than others. My counterparts are all on trips, although I think they defer to me sometimes because of my propensity for being "windy".

As far as the religious aspect, holy cow (pun intended) don't be so sensitive when you ask why we lump that in with the other verboten issues. There has been dialog about allowing it as an issue again. I'll be candid though and tell you that the realities of life are such that (and again we go back to it) some advertisers shy away from controversial content. Please (and I am as religious as the next guy) don't try to argue that it hasn't been controversial on this site. And although some of the threads have provided some of the absolute best debate that you could ask for, many, many times it spirals downhill because of a few knuckleheads and we end up having to delete or close the thread. Man, THEN do we hear the catcalls! Niether side is happy.

All I can do is respect you and be honest and candid with the facts as I know them. I'd be willing to bet that if everybody could excercise self-control and comply with a few common-sense rules, keeping in mind that now, more than ever, it is a healthy mix of participants as well as advertisers that keep this site alive, that virtually all subjects could be broached with practically no moderation. (oh man, my english teacher would be cringing at my syntax right now!)

I'd be happy to dialog with you collectively or indivually as my time permits and as always, I'll call it as I see it.

UAL78

 

[the_dimwit]

I have suggested what I'm about to say in the "Douch Bags" thread (Forum Feedback)...

Why not charge a fee to become a member? That would elminate the need for advertising and, at the same time, provide a place to discuss such issues as religion and politics without fear of losing money.

I'm not involved in any discussions that the mods/owners are having, so I don't know all of the details. It just seems to me that there are a lot of passionate members here, and I'm sure most of them would pony up enough money to cover annual operating costs (whatever they may be).

If this option were chosen, the first step would be communicating the costs on an annual (or month-to-month) basis. This would give the user community an idea of how much a site like this costs.

The second step would be to recruit paying members. I may be wrong, but I don't think that would be hard, especially if the membership fee is kept as low as possible.

Once a sufficient amount of membership is attained, the doors could be swung fully open, and the banter would begin. Of course, rules would still be in place, and the forums would be moderated. But, permanent bannination would be easier, especially since the membership money would be collected up-front, with an agreement to no refunds. (The members would have to be subjected to a "three strikes" rule with little or no leeway.)

I, too, am disappointed that this has all happened. I understand that this is a place of business, like any other. However, if there is any way that things could go back to the way the were, I would love to see it. Otherwise, I'm afraid that many of the most active users will not return.

--Dim

 

[banned username 1]

Thanks, Dim (I won't use your full name, as that sounds prejoritive)

It was Mark's desire not to have to charge for the membership, and that is how it will stay for the forseeable future. He probably knew that pilots were cheap!

I did pose a question to him about having a flightinfo uncut- or a site just like this but you WOULD have to pay to belong, but the other side of it, there would be no moderation and people could go at it hammer and tong- kind of like celebrity death match.

It was under consideration. Now, who knows?

I believe that pretty soon, you'll have the feel of the old site back, but not at the expense of some of the rules that we have to have around for the 2% that just have to push the envelope. If you're a normal pilot with a normal amount of irreverence to just about all things, this site will fit you just fine and you'll feel at home and among friends.

Thanks for the feedback,

UAL78

 

[redd]

Hey UAL78,

Thanks for posting, got to ask a question, how come posters like Chprplt & TonyC, who I haven't always agreed with but respect, get bounced, and "Douche Bag" posers and pot stirrers like SplitS are not?

As far as paying for membership, I could see that a problem could develop if the "Douche Bag" quotient started trouble and claimed it was their right to be there cause they paid, would have bad consequences too. Perhaps donations would be better like has been done in the past here.

Thanks again for the dialog!

Hi Redd-
As far as the two that you mention, without going into it, there seems to be things going on way, way outside flightinfo and it seems to be getting rather serious. Time will tell and it's best to let that passion play, "play out". TonyC right now as I see it is in the "good to go" position and can post anytime. I do not know why he was wherever he was. (Did that sentence make sense???)

As we speak, splitS is in the penalty box and you can see why with a trip to the PB forum.

UAL78

 

[pilotmiketx]

As someone with an extensive background in technology, I'm pretty sure any business who wants ad space on an internet forum could care less about the content of the individuals' posts as long as there is LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of traffic. Contrast that with a desolate board devoid of the kind of spirited discussions that cause threads to grow to 100+ posts and in turn generate many, many impressions (that's ad-speak for 'ad-views')

 

[redd]

Just thinking, is there anything we can do to help drive advertizers here?



Not having a background in web commerce, I wouldn't know. Maybe pilotmiketx has some ideas.