GIV vs. CL604?

[sleepy]

Falcon, Falcon, Falcon......... Get the DA-900EX instead, you boss will like the cabin much better than the Gulfstream cabin. So will you. I would not but anything from Canadair.

 

[Rick1128]

Guys this is a trick question. What he was being asked is what do you think I should buy. What type of trips are presently being done and what does the next two years of trips look like. Unless you are carrying more than 8 passengers or doing a great deal of international flying on a very regular basis, there isn't a major benefit to getting those aircraft. At a former company, I recommended a much smaller aircraft than the boss wanted. They made the purchase based on that recommendation, they still have the aircraft, they are very happy with it and the department is still operating, despite 9/11 and a business down turn. And the aircraft recommended is capable of doing 100% of all the trips non-stop.

If it comes down to the mentioned two aircraft, GIV hands down. If for no other reason than customer support. Ski-doo Jet doesn't know the meaning of customer support. I have had excellent support from Gulfstream worldwide.

For the G4, get an SP with the SPZ8400 and the hydralic brakes. Avoid Brake by Wire if at all possible. Two galleys is the best cabin setup. One galley and lav for the crew and one galley and lav for the passengers.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Mates,

The man said "My owner asked asked me which one I would rather fly?" or words to that effect. So I say ... forget which one the owner "should" buy, this guy should go out to the airport, find some guys with one of each, sit down in them and decide which one "trips his trigger".

Now, if the boss asked which one he should buy, that's another whole question.

TransMach

Didn't you know, TransMach, it doesn't matter what the guy in the back wants (or needs), it's all about what the pilots want to fly. I mean, c'mon, who really cares what's best for the guy writing the paychecks

Ace

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Falcon, Falcon, Falcon......... Get the DA-900EX instead, you boss will like the cabin much better than the Gulfstream cabin. So will you. I would not but anything from Canadair.

boooo!!!

900's are complete dogs. Not even in the same game as GIV...

fill up the 900EX, go right to FL410 and reach redline....

not a chance.

 

[G100driver]

Falcon, Falcon, Falcon......... Get the DA-900EX instead, you boss will like the cabin much better than the Gulfstream cabin. So will you. I would not but anything from Canadair.

Gotta give this one to Sleepy. The Falcon cabin is MUCH roomer and more quite than the G-IVsp (unless all you look at is length ). It also has a much smaller footprint and can manuver on the ground in places that the G-IV cannot. Not to mention lighter weights that can restrict you at some airports.

These were the reasons for our purchase of the 2000EX(new) vs the then new G-300.

All that red line stuff is for pilots and such. Not for guys who write checks.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

That redline stuff is for people who want to get somewhere.....today.....

lumpin' along at FL390 and .78 like a fat French Croissant just aint cuttin' it.

.

and the 2000.....it aint got a RAT - cant take it overwater...right?

.

 

[G100driver]

That redline stuff is for people who want to get somewhere.....today.....

lumpin' along at FL390 and .78 like a fat French Croissant just aint cuttin' it.
.

Hence the reason for the 2000EX. Not only does it have a superior cabin (8 pax or less granted), but you cruise at .83. AND rumor has it you can even cross Lake Michigan.

 

[G100driver]

RAT ... gimme a break. I take a 2000EX to HI any day before I go over in a CL-601 and have that RAT drop at my ETP and me go splash.

This whole RAT thing is over blown. Let us look at this rationally. Why do you want a RAT? In the event that you have a complete electrical failure (at least in the Falcon 2000 senerio) If you loose both Gens at the same time you are probably on fire or have a MASSIVE short. If you loose one, you will decend to FL350 and light the APU. As far a hydaulic goes, the 2000 has 4 pumps. 2 for each engine. The airplane will not fall out of the sky like the cl-604 will if you loose all 4. WHEW .... I hope this cures you irrational paranoia

WOW, I cannot believe I just took the bait ..... again

 

[semperfido]

Gotta give this one to Sleepy. The Falcon cabin is MUCH roomer and more quite than the G-IVsp (unless all you look at is length ). It also has a much smaller footprint and can manuver on the ground in places that the G-IV cannot. Not to mention lighter weights that can restrict you at some airports.

These were the reasons for our purchase of the 2000EX(new) vs the then new G-300.

All that red line stuff is for pilots and such. Not for guys who write checks.

I have to say that I have experience in all 3 (G,F&C) and all are nice and I would be happy to fly any of them. BUT if given the choice for boss, pilot or indian chief, the GULFSTREAM product wins. It outperforms the rivals. I can't remember a time when a falcons smaller "footprint" mattered. "lighter weights"-- fooey! I don't know anything about f2000 vs g300--that was not the original question. It was g4 vs cl604. Falcon wasn't even mentioned. Go with a fairly new G4sp. The boss will love you and you will be satisfied. Don't dick around if he is willing to buy one.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Hence the reason for the 2000EX. Not only does it have a superior cabin (8 pax or less granted), but you cruise at .83. AND rumor has it you can even cross Lake Michigan.

SO....a 2000 can go - full fuel - straight to FL410 and reach redline?

No way, dont cross any water w/o 3 engines or a RAT. fagetaboutit.

.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I have to say that I have experience in all 3 (G,F&C) and all are nice and I would be happy to fly any of them. BUT if given the choice for boss, pilot or indian chief, the GULFSTREAM product wins. It outperforms the rivals. I can't remember a time when a falcons smaller "footprint" mattered. "lighter weights"-- fooey! I don't know anything about f2000 vs g300--that was not the original question. It was g4 vs cl604. Falcon wasn't even mentioned. Go with a fairly new G4sp. The boss will love you and you will be satisfied. Don't dick around if he is willing to buy one.

"smaller footprints" are always toted by guys who fly smaller airplanes...."we dont have to show off, we can afford anything - we CHOSE the smaller bird"....yup, sure ya did sport.

Its like when their girlfriends tell them "Oh honey, size dosen't matter" and they feel manly for a little while.....but deep down inside - they both know size really DOES matter......

.

 

[GVFlyer]

Falcon, Falcon, Falcon......... Get the DA-900EX instead, you boss will like the cabin much better than the Gulfstream cabin. So will you. I would not but anything from Canadair.

???

G350/G450 Cabin... 40'4" L x 7'4" W x 6'2" H Volume: 1,525 cu. ft.
F900EX Cabin.........33'2" L x 7'8" W x 6'2" H Volume: 1,267 cu. ft

GV

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

...has a much smaller footprint and can manuver on the ground in places that the G-IV cannot. Not to mention lighter weights that can restrict you at some airports.

Where? When? Tell me one ramp you've been on or one airport you've gone to that I can't go to in a IV.

There are about 5,500 airports in the U.S. The ones I can't get into in a IV you wouldn't want to go into in ANY jet.

Ace

 

[CatYaaak]

SO....a 2000 can go - full fuel - straight to FL410 and reach redline?

No way, dont cross any water w/o 3 engines or a RAT. fagetaboutit.

.

For the 2000 (straight, not EX) Mmo at FL410 is appx. .855 mach. Granted, it won't do that when heavy, but it's not exactly a dog either. Don't know much about the -731-powered Falcons you fly but this is what I saw just yesterday in our 2000. Pretty close to your scenario, in fact:

Departed the UK with 11,700 lbs of fuel (max minus 400 lbs) bound for Cairo. Climbed straight to FL410 after being held down at 5000' by London for a few minutes. No struggling involved (especially if you're comparing it to a Challenger). ISA +5 at altitude, and accelerated to .81 immediately then .83 within 45 1 hour, burning 890lbs/hr per side. Temps went to ISA so we asked and received non-standard FL430, maintained .83 burning about 850lbs/side. FL450 was achievable but would mean slowing to .80 mach and winds slackened off.

But the airplane was basically designed to fly efficiently and comfortably between FL390 and 430 at .80 mach. With an intial altitude of either FL390 or FL400, I honestly don't ever remember not being able to do this....certainly never struggling to make .78 as you say. I've had it to FL450 a few times when temps were ISA and weight was about 30K (6,500 less than MTOW), so could maintain .80 mach, but never saw much use to take it up to it's ceiling of 47,000 because perf really does drop off there.

The 2000 EX does better than the straight 2000 though, and I'm sure the G-lV wins in the power department. But I've got enough time in Challengers 600's and 604's (not including the truly doggy RJs I've had the displeasure to fly) that I'd choose the Falcon 2000 over it any day based on everything except cockpit space (nobody beats a Challenger in that department).

I've never been too concerned about the lack of a RAT, and granted the only body of water we fly over routinely is the puddle Med and some parts of the Indian Ocean, but we do also go over a lot of remote desert areas in the ME and Africa, and jungles where cannibals would probably toss you in a cooking pot if you had to belly one in.

I think I'd rather be floating in a raft, and besides, it's been proven that Falcons can float in the ocean for days until having to be sunk by the Navy because they become a hazard to shipping, whereas Gulfstreams sink like a stone upon contact with relatively placid Lake Geneve. Camel spiders can't get you if you're in a raft either.

 

[HMR]

Camel spiders can't get you if you're in a raft either.

Well... I guess that settles it then.