Giants May Target Budget Airlines

[General Lee]

Mad691,

Well, I think you do bring up some good points. But, of course, I disagree with you on some.

First, USAir overall isn't doing well. But, to the Carribbean, they are doing well, and so is Delta. I don't think other LCC's fly much to the Carribbean--except Airtran to Freeport, and Jetblue to SJU. I was just pointing out that Delta and USAir do not have much competition to St. Thomas, for example, or St. Martean. Those types of flights generate big bucks because the elite go there, regardless of the cost. Delta flies to Liberia, Costa Rica for God's sake--where the heck is that? But, it is full. And prices on the internet for those types of places don't change much.

Second, The Delta Shuttle is probably one of our most profitable programs. We charge $199 one way regardless of the time of day, and the loads are better than 75%. We use our older 737-300Gs--that have a low daily lease rate and fly back and forth all day. It does very well, even with competition from AA Eagle and USAir.

Third, yes, some people don't like the comfort levels in RJs. But, at most places they fly---like Dothan, AL or Baton Rouge etc...They might not have a choice. Butte. MT--for example---you have two choices: Skywest RJs and Horizon Dash-8-400s. (I think BigSky pulled their Metros out of there) How about Valdosta? How about Fayetville, NC? Ashville, NC? In other words, a lot of these people don't have a choice, and a smaller jet is better than a prop. These fares are higher for the convienence factor, and we win there. Now RJs on longer flight segments are more uncomfortable--that is right. And, Delta has done that one some city pairings--like DFW to OAK, and DCA to DFW. But, hopefully things will get better and we can put a mainline 100 seater on those routes someday, etc....

Fourth, the IFE has always been scheduled to be installed in OCT--as planned. The planes that come from mainline in OCT will get them installed, and the others out there right now will get them installed in regular maintenence periods. That was always the plan. Just like Airtran getting Ryan to do some West Coast flights for them, we also saw a need to implement our Song strategy before we had time to get the IFE installed with the best gadgets. Had we waited until the IFE was ready, Jetblue would have had very little competition with our older Delta Express product. I flew Delta Express for 1 year out of MCO, and we were always packed. But, our 737-200s were not the right plane for the service, but then again we really started it to combat Southwest--and they really don't have a huge presence of North --South East Coast flying. Now Song will combat Jetblue, and when we have every plane up and running with the IFE, we shall see how they do.

Last, as far as Fred Reids numbers, he said them. The only workers that are paid at a higher rate are the pilots at Song. Everyone else has taken pay cuts compared to Mainline, and benefit cuts. The new flight attendants, except for the first 700, called "founders", will have 5 year contracts with a small lump sum and no retirement at the end. Huge cost savings. The planes have more seats (199), and fly more hours per day than mainline. They get the fuel savings from Delta's large fuel hedging program, and benefit from "Delta Technologies"--our large company that helps streamline everything.

You're right, this will be interesting to watch. I am biased of course because I work for Delta, and I want them to succeed.
One more thing that will help everyone coming up is the lowering of fuel costs, which apparently is right around the corner. IF that happens, costs (fuel is our second largest) will fall, and everyone will do better. We can only hope.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Ty Webb]

Hey, that's great! I don't plan to shop at your Home Depot.


I value the safety of myself and my family WAY too much.


Oh, come on, what are you, about fourteen? If you really believe that we are less safe than any of the majors, you're just talking out of your ass. Your beloved UAL put one in the dirt not too long ago, as has every major except SWA, and perhaps ATA. We had one fatal accident 7 years ago due to a felonious act by a subcontractor, and you want to talk about safety? Puh-lease.


You say in this string that you work "for the US Government", yet in another string you claim to work for UAL. What is it? Let me guess- Furloughed by UAL, found out that you didn;t meet our hiring requirements (500 hours 121 PIC), now sucking at the Gummint titty and taking out your frustrations on other airlines and the pilots who work there.

What was it the last time your inattention to safety put a jet into the everglades?

Never. When was the last time your company squandered your retirement? Broke an MD80 apart in LIT? Flew into a mountain? Ran off a runway? Landed at the wrong airport? FLew into a Microburst? Blah, blah, blah. Shall I continue?

Not living in the past, but once a scab, always a scab.

Who are you talking to, fool? We have 850 pilots, and a handful of them are on the scab list. There are WAY more pilots on the "Scab list" at UAL and CAL than there are here . . . . maybe you're on the list? I'm sure not.


The simple truth is that if DAL matched your payscales, you'd be out of business in less than a year.

Now who doesn't understand economics? You really think the difference between our operation and DAL's is that their front-end crew is making an extra $100./ hour, about a three-tenths of a cent per seat mile?

Clearly, you are just a flamer, with no facts at your disposal, you're either a kid with nothing better to do than flame, or you are a disgruntled wanna-be.

Either way, this is where I get off.

 

[mad691]

"Second, The Delta Shuttle is probably one of our most profitable programs. We charge $199 one way regardless of the time of day, and the loads are better than 75%. We use our older 737-300Gs--that have a low daily lease rate and fly back and forth all day. It does very well, even with competition from AA Eagle and USAir."

Look how many times Delta has changed the shuttle. You had the 800s for a while now you use 300s. I think at one time you had rjs. Correct if I am wrong. I don't think it was that good. Ridership is still down from pre 911/recession. But at least they are adjusting. I think USair is actually putting a 2 class configuration on theirs.

"I was just pointing out that Delta and USAir do not have much competition to St. Thomas, for example, or St. Martean. Those types of flights generate big bucks because the elite go there, regardless of the cost."

You are absolutely right. No competition there and Delta and Usair know it. They get to charge pretty much what they want. But still as whole Delta is still loosing money as a company. So I don't think its doing that well.

"Delta has done that one some city pairings--like DFW to OAK, and DCA to DFW. But, hopefully things will get better and we can put a mainline 100 seater on those routes someday, etc...."

I think in this case Delta is doing the wrong thing. Out of ATL for example Delta puts RJs against 717s on ROC,BUF,CAK,PHF, and FNT. No mainline. To me thats not smart. Most people would will fly the competition. Samething out DFW. People rather AMR or other competiters because of this. I wonder why Airtran is setting up shop over there now?

"Last, as far as Fred Reids numbers, he said them. The only workers that are paid at a higher rate are the pilots at Song. Everyone else has taken pay cuts compared to Mainline, and benefit cuts. The new flight attendants, except for the first 700, called "founders", will have 5 year contracts with a small lump sum and no retirement at the end. Huge cost savings."

The point I was trying to make that labor is cheaper than MAINLINE. I doubt that Song flight attendents, rampers, and gate agents make less than JBLU,SWA, and Airtran. Whats the point. You can go work for them and make more money. So I do think that labor actually costs more at Song than at the 3 LCC's.

In the end I believe Song is about cutting costs and NOT being profitable. The same goes for Starfish. Just remember AMR, UAL, Usair took HUGE pay cuts and the are still not profitable. Thats why I don't think you guys should take a pay cut. Even if you guys take a 20% pay cut Delta would still loose money. Management needs to generate revenue not keep cutting costs.