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Getting out of aviation!
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I've been beat down for saying this before, but I would NOT promote this industry to anyone. (Yes, I'm still in it for the "love of it," I guess), but everyday my kids get older and have no more money in their college funds than last year. My wife and I have no more saved for retirement, either. But I've got 700 more hours and 50 new airports under my belt.
One day, not long from now (maybe 20 years) all my friends from high school who pursued and perservered in careers they "can't stand" will find their mortgages paid off (mines just getting ready to start), the pools built in the yard, the boat ready for the marina and the GOBS of retirement money waiting and ready to have the time of their lives.
About that time, an old Citation driver I know who worked for 3 airlines (and then a medium-sized corporation after the "60 rule" kicked in) will DIE without a dollar in his pocket, all 3 ex-wives (all AIDS casualties, he explains) paid for, a mortgage still unpaid and his kids still not happy with him for making them pay for college. He still says he's in it for the love of it, but I can read the sense of failure in his eyes while he talks of airlines going out of business and his having to start over and over. Not his fault. Just his decisions.
Problem is, I really only see ending up like the Citation driver the way things have been going and the way this industry functions these days. If I'm really lucky, I may just do it on ONE marriage and be able to keep the kids close - so they can brag that their Daddy is a pilot.
At least I "love my job."
I'm not crying - just sober and clear-headed, at the moment.
Cheers.
ClassG
One day, not long from now (maybe 20 years) all my friends from high school who pursued and perservered in careers they "can't stand" will find their mortgages paid off (mines just getting ready to start), the pools built in the yard, the boat ready for the marina and the GOBS of retirement money waiting and ready to have the time of their lives.
About that time, an old Citation driver I know who worked for 3 airlines (and then a medium-sized corporation after the "60 rule" kicked in) will DIE without a dollar in his pocket, all 3 ex-wives (all AIDS casualties, he explains) paid for, a mortgage still unpaid and his kids still not happy with him for making them pay for college. He still says he's in it for the love of it, but I can read the sense of failure in his eyes while he talks of airlines going out of business and his having to start over and over. Not his fault. Just his decisions.
Problem is, I really only see ending up like the Citation driver the way things have been going and the way this industry functions these days. If I'm really lucky, I may just do it on ONE marriage and be able to keep the kids close - so they can brag that their Daddy is a pilot.
At least I "love my job."
I'm not crying - just sober and clear-headed, at the moment.
Cheers.
ClassG
EternalOptimist
Active member
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2003
- Posts
- 34
I'm just going to ramble a bit so bear with me.
I'm the wife of a pilot who started out like just about every other pilot on this forum - dreaming of flying and talking about it non-stop from about age 5. He loved the idea of flying. In high school, when he began to formulate his plan for jumping into a career in aviation, all he could think about was how great it would be to fly for a living. When someone told him that he would likely have to fly on weekends and holidays, he thought "What's wrong with that? When is there ever NOT a good time to go fly?" He was unable to see the realities of the lifestyle of the professional pilot.
Flight school was an eye-opening experience. The flying was great but as his training neared completion he began to understand the realities of what the future had in store for him. Uncertainty being the biggest hurdle for him. He is from the West Coast and wanted to live near family but when he was hired by a regional, he ended up based on the East Coast - just about as far away from anything familiar as he could get. He made starvation wages the first couple of years and he worked every weekend.
Things started to look up a little bit at the regional after we got married - he was finally senior enough to get weekends off (not holidays though) and even after he upgraded to Captain, he had a great schedule.
When he upgraded to a bigger plane he had mixed feelings - he was on top of the world when he was awarded Captain on the DHC-8 but it meant that for the first time he would be gone on multiple-day trips. He was used to being home every night.
The further he gets into his aviation career, the worse it seems his lifestlye becomes. I have been super supportive, I have encouraged him to hang in there - that things will get better. But they only get worse.
He flew for the regional airline for 5 years and we moved 3 times. Pennsylvania was the first place we lived, then New Mexico and then Arizona.
He was finally hired on at a major - his dream job. He is based in his home town (my home town too as luck would have it). We were thrilled to be moving back home. We thought he was finally done paying his dues to the industry and that he was on the road to aviation bliss.
But he has been flying for the majors for 2 years now and has been on reserve the entire time. Not only has he been on reserve these past two years but he has actually lost ground on the seniority list and is now the most junior first officer on his equipment in his base. He can't even hold the zone he prefers on reserve and he never gets weekends or holidays off. And because the airline is short of pilots, he is flying all the time. He is on call beginning at 4am and he gets called almost without fail right at 4am every day he is on reserve.
The thrill is gone for him. Flying isn't as fun in the majors - he's working for the only airline he ever wanted to work for. He enjoys the actual flying and he really likes most of the guys he flies with. You might say he's "living the dream". But he values his time with me also. I work during the week - during his days off. And he is flying every weekend when I'm off. I go with him whenever I can but the loads aren't always in my favor.
I'm not trying to discourage you. But you must take a realistic look at what the future holds for you - even if everything goes right. My husband is one of the "lucky" ones. He never had to flight instruct, he went straight from flight school to major airline in 7 years with no previous flight training. And he only applied to one major airline - the only one he wanted to work for. He got his "dream" job during 2002 - almost exactly one year after 9/11 when almost no airlines were hiring. In many respects you could say God has been smiling on my husband and opening doors for him along the way. But aviation, like love, can tear your heart apart and make you miserable. He still loves the flying - he still talks about some of his experiences like he's that 5-year old boy, with the sparkle in his eye. But the lifestyle and stress - the unknowns in his daily life and the uncertainty about the future - make him feel trapped in this career and long for something more normal.
I don't think he'd enjoy an 8-5 job - I think an office environment would drive him batty. But there will be several more years of life as we know it now before his schedule resembles normalcy.
Good luck with your decision.
I'm the wife of a pilot who started out like just about every other pilot on this forum - dreaming of flying and talking about it non-stop from about age 5. He loved the idea of flying. In high school, when he began to formulate his plan for jumping into a career in aviation, all he could think about was how great it would be to fly for a living. When someone told him that he would likely have to fly on weekends and holidays, he thought "What's wrong with that? When is there ever NOT a good time to go fly?" He was unable to see the realities of the lifestyle of the professional pilot.
Flight school was an eye-opening experience. The flying was great but as his training neared completion he began to understand the realities of what the future had in store for him. Uncertainty being the biggest hurdle for him. He is from the West Coast and wanted to live near family but when he was hired by a regional, he ended up based on the East Coast - just about as far away from anything familiar as he could get. He made starvation wages the first couple of years and he worked every weekend.
Things started to look up a little bit at the regional after we got married - he was finally senior enough to get weekends off (not holidays though) and even after he upgraded to Captain, he had a great schedule.
When he upgraded to a bigger plane he had mixed feelings - he was on top of the world when he was awarded Captain on the DHC-8 but it meant that for the first time he would be gone on multiple-day trips. He was used to being home every night.
The further he gets into his aviation career, the worse it seems his lifestlye becomes. I have been super supportive, I have encouraged him to hang in there - that things will get better. But they only get worse.
He flew for the regional airline for 5 years and we moved 3 times. Pennsylvania was the first place we lived, then New Mexico and then Arizona.
He was finally hired on at a major - his dream job. He is based in his home town (my home town too as luck would have it). We were thrilled to be moving back home. We thought he was finally done paying his dues to the industry and that he was on the road to aviation bliss.
But he has been flying for the majors for 2 years now and has been on reserve the entire time. Not only has he been on reserve these past two years but he has actually lost ground on the seniority list and is now the most junior first officer on his equipment in his base. He can't even hold the zone he prefers on reserve and he never gets weekends or holidays off. And because the airline is short of pilots, he is flying all the time. He is on call beginning at 4am and he gets called almost without fail right at 4am every day he is on reserve.
The thrill is gone for him. Flying isn't as fun in the majors - he's working for the only airline he ever wanted to work for. He enjoys the actual flying and he really likes most of the guys he flies with. You might say he's "living the dream". But he values his time with me also. I work during the week - during his days off. And he is flying every weekend when I'm off. I go with him whenever I can but the loads aren't always in my favor.
I'm not trying to discourage you. But you must take a realistic look at what the future holds for you - even if everything goes right. My husband is one of the "lucky" ones. He never had to flight instruct, he went straight from flight school to major airline in 7 years with no previous flight training. And he only applied to one major airline - the only one he wanted to work for. He got his "dream" job during 2002 - almost exactly one year after 9/11 when almost no airlines were hiring. In many respects you could say God has been smiling on my husband and opening doors for him along the way. But aviation, like love, can tear your heart apart and make you miserable. He still loves the flying - he still talks about some of his experiences like he's that 5-year old boy, with the sparkle in his eye. But the lifestyle and stress - the unknowns in his daily life and the uncertainty about the future - make him feel trapped in this career and long for something more normal.
I don't think he'd enjoy an 8-5 job - I think an office environment would drive him batty. But there will be several more years of life as we know it now before his schedule resembles normalcy.
Good luck with your decision.
Cosmo1999
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2003
- Posts
- 128
A Passenger
User Title
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- Posts
- 38
Thanks for all of the replies and advice.
Right now, I'm leaning towards sticking with aviation, not for the money but because I love flying and would hate to have to sit in some cubicle every day. I DO NOT plan to pursue an airline career though. The majors won't be hiring for a LONG time, and working at the regionals for Wal-Mart money and having the possiblity of being furloed or the airline going out of business is not something I'm interested in.
I'll probably start off flight instructing to build flight time and getting a "cubicle job" on the side to save up money, then possibly getting a corporate, charter, or air ambulance job or buying a plane and starting my own 135 company. There are a lot more career options in aviation than the airlines.
Right now, I'm leaning towards sticking with aviation, not for the money but because I love flying and would hate to have to sit in some cubicle every day. I DO NOT plan to pursue an airline career though. The majors won't be hiring for a LONG time, and working at the regionals for Wal-Mart money and having the possiblity of being furloed or the airline going out of business is not something I'm interested in.
I'll probably start off flight instructing to build flight time and getting a "cubicle job" on the side to save up money, then possibly getting a corporate, charter, or air ambulance job or buying a plane and starting my own 135 company. There are a lot more career options in aviation than the airlines.
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Sticky
Never Trust A Monkey
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2003
- Posts
- 289
Just because you don't fly doesn't mean you must work in a cubicle. There are plenty of careers that don't require sitting in a small cubicle for 8 hours a day. Most of my non-aviation friends have great jobs that travel several times a year, spend 1/3 of the week outdoors, and the job doesn't become the ruling force in their life.
A Passenger, if you want ideas in non-airline flying jobs that pay more than 1st year RJ capts, PM me (magnetic research, remote sensing, large and small format photography, forest services, ocean research, etc)
A Passenger, if you want ideas in non-airline flying jobs that pay more than 1st year RJ capts, PM me (magnetic research, remote sensing, large and small format photography, forest services, ocean research, etc)
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ClassG said:
ClassG,
Try one more thing, this may steer you into the right direction: Try to visualize yourself retiring happy, looking back at your life and saying to yourself, "I had a blast doing what I did." Now try to determine whether money and stability will give you that happiness, or having had fun at your job instead. Once you realize what brings you that happiness, pursue it. If it means getting out of aviation - for which you seem like a good candidate - then do it. If not, stay in aviation and suck it up - your passion will carry you through. Pool your financial resources and invest smartly. No matter how little stability you have, or the size of your paycheck, you can always invest more than you think. The right decisions now will make this career a lot more attractive when those investments kick in. You're talking to somebody who did just that, on a regional F/Os 1st year paycheck ($19.02/hr). Good luck.
73
Don't think that pilots are the only people that are broke. I started training to be a pilot, after I got my private I decided to do something else (like a real job) so that I could make money. I started my own business. The first couple of months were great. I made a $6,800 in my third month of having my business!!
I always felt a certain pull towards aviation but I kept telling myself that I am better off in my own business, after all I was making good money. However I hated what I did.
I have now decided to get back into aviation and pursue it as a professional pilot. I just closed my business this December on the advice of my attorney. We are working now to see if there is a way I can NOT declare bankruptcy but it is looking VERY tough right now.
Had I gone into aviation instead I might have been umemployed and broke but that is no different than where I am now anyway. At least I would have enjoyed what I did.
There are many pilots that are in tough situations but that is true for every profession.
My father recently retired as an airline pilot. Never was on furlough, had a great schedule, and very good pay. He keeps encouraging me to get into aviation and I will now take his advice.
Do what you feel you "need" to do for a living and everything will take care of itself in the long run. At least I hope it does
Jimmy
I always felt a certain pull towards aviation but I kept telling myself that I am better off in my own business, after all I was making good money. However I hated what I did.
I have now decided to get back into aviation and pursue it as a professional pilot. I just closed my business this December on the advice of my attorney. We are working now to see if there is a way I can NOT declare bankruptcy but it is looking VERY tough right now.
Had I gone into aviation instead I might have been umemployed and broke but that is no different than where I am now anyway. At least I would have enjoyed what I did.
There are many pilots that are in tough situations but that is true for every profession.
My father recently retired as an airline pilot. Never was on furlough, had a great schedule, and very good pay. He keeps encouraging me to get into aviation and I will now take his advice.
Do what you feel you "need" to do for a living and everything will take care of itself in the long run. At least I hope it does
Jimmy
FN FAL
Freight Dawgs Rule
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2003
- Posts
- 8,573
Where do you dorks keep coming up with this cubicle crap?A Passenger said:
I have changed careers several times and I never worked in a cubicle.
I tell you what...save yourself some money, go join the Navy and get salvage diving or EOD as your guaranteed school. Go get some hair on your balls and quit picking on cubicles.
TrafficInSight
mmmm.... doooonuuuut.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2004
- Posts
- 613
TrafficInSight
mmmm.... doooonuuuut.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2004
- Posts
- 613
mar
Remember this one?
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 1,929
The mythical cubicle
Yeah, it's like those monsters at the edge of the Earth. No one has ever seen them but everyone is sure they're there.
Anyway, I learned to fly because I didn't want to spend all day in a cubicle. So now I spend all night in a tube.
Whatever. I love to fly. I gotta fly.
Here's the deal: Your success in any given endeavor is pretty much hinged on the expectations you bring to it right from the beginning.
In other words, if you expect an airline career like your dad had, forget it, you're gonna be bitter and frustrated.
If you expect a union contract like the other guys, forget it, you're sunk.
If you get into this scene for any other reason than how you feel when you break ground then you're just setting yourself up for years of bitter frustration.
And speaking of setting yourself up, you need to take conscious steps at every turn of your career (not to mention those rites of passages that make us adults) to ensure some semblance of stability and satisfaction.
In sum, grasshoppa, the answer is inside you. Not on this message board. Go for a walk.
Best.
Yeah, it's like those monsters at the edge of the Earth. No one has ever seen them but everyone is sure they're there.
Anyway, I learned to fly because I didn't want to spend all day in a cubicle. So now I spend all night in a tube.
Whatever. I love to fly. I gotta fly.
Here's the deal: Your success in any given endeavor is pretty much hinged on the expectations you bring to it right from the beginning.
In other words, if you expect an airline career like your dad had, forget it, you're gonna be bitter and frustrated.
If you expect a union contract like the other guys, forget it, you're sunk.
If you get into this scene for any other reason than how you feel when you break ground then you're just setting yourself up for years of bitter frustration.
And speaking of setting yourself up, you need to take conscious steps at every turn of your career (not to mention those rites of passages that make us adults) to ensure some semblance of stability and satisfaction.
In sum, grasshoppa, the answer is inside you. Not on this message board. Go for a walk.
Best.
FN FAL
Freight Dawgs Rule
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2003
- Posts
- 8,573
Where's the flying in it? Hahaha...our creedo was, "There are more navy divers looking for pilots, than pilots looking for divers!"TrafficInSight said:You didn't quite understand what I meant... and although that would be fun... where's the flying in it? except when you make the fuse too short I guess
Jump in sweet pea...the water is just fine.
TrafficInSight
mmmm.... doooonuuuut.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2004
- Posts
- 613
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