Getting Helo ratings...

[MarineGrunt]

How difficult is it to get all/most your helicopter ratings if you already have all your fixed wing ratings? Big expense? Lots of time? etc...?

 

[avbug]

Same amount of time it took you to get your fixed wing ratings, but a lot more expensive. Figure about thirty grand if you just want to add on, and fifty if you want to fly enough to get employed instructing...especially if you are seeking a job in a Robinson.

 

[JB Bus Drvr]

If you hold a private or comm. airplane, it takes about 30-40 hrs. of training\flt. time. The cost is closer to $8K to 9K. (R22 @ $200/hr.) The rub is getting a helicopter job. Most operators want 1500 hrs. helicopter experience and if you're looking at a turbine job, close to 1000 turbine time. For somebody who wants the rating for fun, it's not a bad price. But if you're trying to eventually get a helicopter job, it's an extremely long and hard road if you're doing it in the civilian world. If you're serious about it PM me and I'll fill you in on details and schools you might want to consider.

 

[msw]

Fiexed wing to helo

Getting my helo add-on ratings was not difficult; I'd call it fun and challenging. The cost is another matter, as it IS expensive. But I also think AvBug is way off on the $30K for the Helo add-on ratings, if you are already a Comm F/W pilot. I've been a fixed wing guy for a long long time, and about 7 years ago, I did my PVT Helo add-on followed immediately by a COMM Helo add-on...... to the best of my aging recollection, my total cost (then) was a little under $11,000 including books and the two flight tests. I think the R22 was about $130/hr and another $35/hr for the instructor in those days, and it took me about 70 - 75 hours total helo time from the beginning to the point of passing the Comm checkride. I would not have done it except that I had a guaranteed job "improvement" (sort of a lateral transfer for me) lined up flying helos after I got the add-ons, with a $1000 a month pay raise; so my expenses were made up for in less than a year. If not for that, I would not have done it, as in most of the rest of helo world, AvBug is right on the mark: you'll spend a lot of time and money just getting to the point where you can instruct in an R22. I think the military trained helo pilots have a bigger employment advantage (because of their training and the turbine time they bring out of the service with them) over their fixed wing brethren.

 

[USMCmech]

if you are already a Comm F/W pilot .... I did my PVT Helo add-on followed immediately by a COMM Helo add-on.

My understanding is that if you already have your Comm, you can skip private and go straight to comercial.

But, I've been wrong before.

 

[avbug]

You are correct. You're not skipping anything, however. There is one pilot certificate. Not a private and a commercial. These are privileges that may be applied to ratings on your certiicate or to the certificate in general. However, if you're a commercial pilot, you're a commercial pilot, and you hold a commercial pilot certificate. If you add a helicopter category rating on to that certificate, you can add it with private privileges, or commercial privileges. That's up to you.

There exists no requirement to obtain private privileges when adding on rating; you can do it at a commercial level first.

As for the cost, avbug was not wrong.

A Robinson or a Schweitzer today will cost you about one hundred eighty an hour to two thirty an hour. Costs have gone up.

A typical private pilot add on will run about six grand, assuming you can knock it out in 40 hours. To do it as a commercial, if you can do it in the minimum time of 40 hours, about nine grand. Add an instrument rating for four thousand. Add on a flight instructor for six thousand and instrument flight instructor for another two, and you've hopped up another six or seven grand.

Now add in additional costs such as examiner fees, hotel and meals if you're going somewhere to start the training, and then of course additional flying if you can't get it done in the bare minimum number of hours (a lot of folks don't...not not in fixed wing, or helicopters), and the cost gets there very quickly.

The Robinson is used for more instruction than any other type; sensibly, if you're looking for a civillian instructing job, you're more likely to find work in a Robinson than any other type. To get enough flight experience to qualify to teach in a Robbie under the SFAR, you'll need to boost up to two hundred hours, and that is going to run you right up to nearly fifty grand by the time you're done.

Having said that, most helicopter places are only going to hire helicopter instructors who took their training there. Or more accurately, there are enough students coming through that want the job that they're unlikely to turn to outside help. Not all, but many. With that in mind, your most likely training mount will also be the one you instruct in...train in Schweitzer's and instruct in them...but at the same time you'll be unable to go somewhere else to instruct in a robinson if that need should arise. Or rent one, for that matter.

As far as Civillian helicopter pilots, you're seeing more and more of them in the workplace today. A lot more.

 

[nosehair]

To do it as a commercial, if you can do it in the minimum time of 40 hours.

FAR 61.129(c)(1)100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 50 must be in helicopters.

Avbug, how can you do it in 40?

 

[Crimson03]

FAR 61.129(c)(1)100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 50 must be in helicopters.

Avbug, how can you do it in 40?

Some schools have part 141 approval to do commercial helicopter add ons in 40 hours.

 

[avbug]

Under Part 141, 30 hours of training in rotorcraft are required for commercial certification with a rotorcraft category rating.

Add ten hours for solo, and you have the typical package that's sold as a "commercial add-on" rating.

Does this mean that with just 40 hours of helicopter time someone is good to go? Considering that a fixed wing private pilot typically takes more like 65 to eighty hours on the average, how much more do you suppose one might take in a helicopter. Minimums seldom mean the amount of time in which one will finish the program, only the smallest amount of time in which an applicant may finish the program.

In actual practice, the costs and times involved are higher, which is why I posted as I did.

 

[Checks]

Sure there are more jobs but the pay and benefits will never be anything like you can make flying fixed wing. If you arent a military trained helo pilot I would STRONGLY advise against getting your helicopter ratings in hopes of getting a job.

 

[avbug]

Everybody who got into avaition strictly with the intention of making every possible dollar, raise your hand.

Those that raised your hand if that's really true...why are you still here?

 

[The Saint]

One company that you might want to look into is Boatpix.com they charge about 100 buck an hr for r22 time cause you are working for them but the flying is cool. i got my comm heli-add on though heli-flight in Ft-Lauderdale got it done in 38 hrs and cost me about 6K. After that just to fly for fun i pay boatpix to work for them O'well flame on!

 

[nosehair]

OK, Saint, how did it happen in 38 hours when the 141 min is 40?

 

[The Saint]

Ok sorry went to the check ride with 38 hrs got the comm-heli add on with 40

 

[nosehair]

Ok sorry went to the check ride with 38 hrs got the comm-heli add on with 40

Nope, that doesn't work either. You can't "go to the checkride" expecting the checkride time to get ya up to the minimums. C'mon, I'm really trying to scope out the minimum helicopter times, because I have heard a lot of different stories about different interprtation of times required in different FSDO's.

I know what the regs say, (61 & 141) but I also keep hearing of guys getting ratings with less than the regulatory times. I'm trying to determine if there are other loopholes, or is it the same as "I caught a fish thiiiis big..."

 

[mattpilot]

I tried to get my helo add-on at the bare minimums of 30 hours (part61)**. Instructor doesn't/didn't like that idea. I'm at 33 now and probably gonna go for the checkride at a little above 40 hours.

Previous experience in aircraft include 200 hours in ASEL. I guess what i'm saying is, just because the FAA allows you to do it with a certain amount of hours, don't expect it to happen. You need to be very competent and have a good instructor who will go along with your idea. I had no choice other than a newly minted CFI who had no more than 5 hours on type - and he, as any new CFI, is worried about sending guys off to checkrides to early and having them fail.

oh well...

edit: ** that is PPL add-on, not CPL. I figured it would be more beneficial to get PPL first and then use the 20 hours dual required for CPL to build up my PIC times to apply for a CPL add-on, rather than fly around solo for 20 hours like a douche with nothing to do. Nearest 141 school to do a "quick" 40 hour CPL add on is a 4 hour drive away.

 

[Crimson03]

Nope, that doesn't work either. You can't "go to the checkride" expecting the checkride time to get ya up to the minimums. C'mon, I'm really trying to scope out the minimum helicopter times, because I have heard a lot of different stories about different interprtation of times required in different FSDO's.

I know what the regs say, (61 & 141) but I also keep hearing of guys getting ratings with less than the regulatory times. I'm trying to determine if there are other loopholes, or is it the same as "I caught a fish thiiiis big..."

I just went and looked and I went for my commercial helicopter checkride with 39.1 hours, checkride was 1.4hrs. This was a part 141 add on to ppsel at FSI about 15 years ago.

 

[nosehair]

I just went and looked and I went for my commercial helicopter checkride with 39.1 hours, checkride was 1.4hrs. This was a part 141 add on to ppsel at FSI about 15 years ago.

OK...thanks for clarifying...15 years ago, who knows what the regs said?

 

[eyelevelflyer]

R22 at FCM

The going rate for a R22 at Flying Cloud Airport in Minnesota as of last fall was $248.00 per hour. Ouch!

 

[mattpilot]

The going rate for a R22 at Flying Cloud Airport in Minnesota as of last fall was $248.00 per hour. Ouch!

160 excluding instructor here at RVS