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[Gulfstream 200]

You relay South Florida and tales of these so called "industry normal" training contracts (?) and "12 month commitments" - sounds kinda like slavery, not at will employment.

Do those rich owners guarantee us scumbag pilots year by year employment since they expect yearly commitments from Initial and maybe recurrents? -- downright comical and borderline bizarre.

We don't hire solely from within (it helps), we don't pay top dollar (for the most part) but we do interview thoroughly and work very hard to provide pilots high QOL. Turnover is average. 3 pilots have left in 3 years (out of 18) One was encouraged to leave, one was a surprise, one was not. Whatever.

Never has a training contract ever been considered - and never will if I have say. Training contracts say "look out" to perspective employees. Our strategy for retention? -- We lay out the job very openly during the extensive interview - you know what you're getting into.

Sign personal loans for school? - c'mon! - good luck with quality candidates at those jobs...:laugh: training contracts? - do these employers put 12 months of salary in escrow for me for the day their beloved hedge fund blows up? - nah, Id get 2 weeks notice...expect the same from me.

Let me ask (I really have no idea) - What Fortune 10, 50, 100, etc companies have training contracts?

 

[Fly91]

You relay South Florida and tales of these so called "industry normal" training contracts (?) and "12 month commitments" - sounds kinda like slavery, not at will employment.

There's no other industry/occupation that requires employers to spend 10's of thousands of $$$ on their employees each year, in addition to all the other required expenses. Its different. Its more like "lucky" to work. What if pilots had to pay for training out of our pay each year, that would suck but we would all find a way and QOL would be alot different.

Do those rich owners guarantee us scumbag pilots year by year employment since they expect yearly commitments from Initial and maybe recurrents? -- downright comical and borderline bizarre.

No. Training contracts do not have to be paid back if the company folds the flight department and lays off the pilots. At least a smart pilot would make sure thats in the contract.

Never has a training contract ever been considered - and never will if I have say. Training contracts say "look out" to perspective employees. Our strategy for retention? -- We lay out the job very openly during the extensive interview - you know what you're getting into.

Sign personal loans for school? - c'mon! - good luck with quality candidates at those jobs...:laugh:

Let me ask (I really have no idea) - What Fortune 10, 50, 100, etc companies have training contracts?

Its mostly 135 ops and smaller 91 ops that do this. Not F100 ops.

I don't know how many times I have to say it, it is NOT done at the very good 91 companies. I've said that over and over. If my company wasn't a foreign company it would be an F100 company, they never did training contracts either because they hire smartly. Noone has left here in 8 years. CP has been there 20 years. Flight department has been around for 33 years. No need for training contracts when you are a rock solid company who does it right.

BTW, Simuflite in Morristown.....they make their new hire instructors sign them, a LOAN. My friend is one of them. And companies down here are starting to do it more and more.

Don't think things aren't so just because you haven't heard of them. Ask around a little bit, you'll learn something new about the industry that you're in.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I question your friends sanity for even considering working for simuflite MMU - nevermind signing any agreement, contract, loan, etc. Does he know what he's getting into up here?

I know some of their former and current instructors - none of which would have signed any "loan" of any sort.

What do they sign a loan for? - the opportunity to sit in on CAE's own class in DFW for a month and use CAE's own instructors to get sim type ratings?

Now that downright funny! - there's a reason the place cant keep instructors at decent 6 figure salaries.

Loan, Contract, whatever you call it -- I'd walk from it every time. Any mention of the like sends up a big red "this place sucks and we need to trap you" flag....

I guess this horse is dead enough.

 

[Fly91]

I question your friends sanity for even considering working for simuflite MMU - nevermind signing any agreement, contract, loan, etc. Does he know what he's getting into up here?

Well, before he got done with training at CAE to start instructing, he was offered a pretty kickass 91 job out of Russia. They offered to pay off his training contract if he excepted. The guy is an ex-TWA guy and has more time then you'll ever have, he just needed a way to get into the corporate world. He doesn't strive to be a friggin instructor.

Everyone has their own reasons for doing things, but he's not gonna screw CAE out of the training they gave him and type-rating they gave him on the CH 300. He will have to pay them back if he leaves.

What do they sign a loan for? - the opportunity to sit in on CAE's own class in DFW for a month and use CAE's own instructors to get sim type ratings?

Yes, times are tough, pilots are doing what they have to do to keep working.
Not everyone is GOD like you.

Loan, Contract, whatever you call it -- I'd walk from it every time. Any mention of the like sends up a big red "this place sucks and we need to trap you" flag....

Just hope you stay where you are and don't run into having to look for a job and doing what it takes to get back to work.

I guess this horse is dead enough.

Guys like you can't let things die. If you haven't done it, if you haven't thought of it, if you haven't experienced it or you haven't heard of it............its just not the truth.

Thats pretty f'ed up. You obviously have alot of corporate experience at your current job and I'm sure you have alot of flight experience......but you're kind of a dick sometimes. You learned something tonight about how companies are starting to do things with respect to training new hires. I think you're just pissed that you actually learned something instead of giving someone some info.

Thats how the world goes round.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Pay back CAE for the type they "gave him".....downright comicial again! - How much does CAE pay for that inhouse type by thier own instructors? Why cant they find any corporate guys to work there and have to hire your buddy? -- because word is out - the job sucks. It dosen't have to be, but its a known item now. Maybe it is changing...they say so...

Are companies not expected to train employees anymore? They will work him 80hrs a week, is that not enough?

I have learned nothing of how companies are "starting to do things" - I always knew the South Florida aviation scene generally sucks. You verify that all the time with all the talk of great gigs in Russia and India, personal loans, "scumbag pilots" etc. To each his own, but none sound like ideal corporate job scenarios.

Sorry, but your posting on the corporate board - training contracts and personal loans just are NOT the NORM as you keep telling us. God? just because I refuse to take out a personal friggin' loan for a job offer flying some foreign billionaire around....not happening...Loans for a job? - yeah, you bet your ass Im out of touch with that part of this industry.

You do know there is a "Charter" forum here also?

Oh, I forgot - you are right. You told us in Post #39, you are right.

 

[semperfido]

yeah, the "corporate" they describe is NOT the "corporate" I have experienced over the years. I don't know a soul that has ever paid for, or signed anything for training. FL is apparently the bottom of the corporate barrel.

 

[Fly91]

yeah, the "corporate" they describe is NOT the "corporate" I have experienced over the years. I don't know a soul that has ever paid for, or signed anything for training. FL is apparently the bottom of the corporate barrel.

The best corporate jobs are down here in South Florida....and the worst corporate and 135 operations are here too.

 

[Gear Up!]

This is making my head hurt!!