Getting a 135 Certificate

[Masterplan]

Can anybody pointme in the right direction for getting a 135 Certificate? I understand there are a couple of different types. Are there prefab certificates or are they all done from sratch. Any info or links would be appretiated

 

[mike1mc]

Need a lot of time, patience, and $$$$. Here's a link to a wealth of info:
http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airline_certification/

No pre-fab, although you can pay a company to do the manuals for you.

 

[b350capt]

review far 119, the certification documentation provided above, and contact your local FSDO for all the applicable guildlines, regulations, HBATS, and advisory circulars (as the link above does NOT include all necessary information)....but be warned as mike said it is NOT easy or quick. You should expect at least 6 to 8 months to obtain a single pilot certificate, up to a year for a basic. Of course it all depends on the FSDO and if you do pay a company to provide all your documentation. Some FSDO's will get you up and running inside of 6 months IF you have all your documents together. Its a big process, but I hope that it works out well for you!

 

[kilroy]

Part-135

Majority of FSDO are not accepting any new applications for certificates. If they do accept your application don't expect to get a to get anything going for atleast 9-12 months. The FAA is starting to close FSDO's and also combining Fsdo's. They are understaffed and poorly managed. Every question is followed by NO.

What we done is buy an exisiting certificate then slowly change the certificate to our needs.

Good Luck

 

[G100driver]

Can anybody pointme in the right direction for getting a 135 Certificate? I understand there are a couple of different types. Are there prefab certificates or are they all done from sratch. Any info or links would be appretiated

1. Go to nearest hospital
2. Find 1st year proctologist resident.
3 Get lubotomy.

-OR-

1. Go to nearest sporting goods store.
2. Buy shotgun
3. Saw off barrel.
4. Blow own head off.

It is all about the same.

 

[siegelaviation]

I started the Part 135 Single Pilot certification process back in November. The paperwork requirements are not that difficult. There are two things that can set people back. #1 The FAA moves at a snail's pace. I have a great POI. But they have so much on their plate, it is hard for them to sit down for a day and go through a compliance statement or print out and sign the opspecs. I turned in the second version of my statement of compliance over a month ago. Spoke to my POI and he told me he still didn't know when he was going to get to it. Which brings us to setback #2: INSURANCE. Insurance on my Seneca II for Part 135 pax and cargo use is over $10,000 a year. And it is a requirement for certification. Without it, you can't get your economic authority from the DOT, which means no 135 certificate. So while you are waiting for your POI to sit down for 3 hours to go through some paperwork, you are paying over $3000 in fixed costs like loan payment,, hangar, insurance, and fuel because you can't let your plane sit while you wait for your certificate.

PM or email me if you need any further information.

Michael Siegel

 

[iflyabeech]

I started my 135 single pilot certification process in mid-December. I am doing some international ops as well as IFR pax and cargo. Even with the FSDO being gone for about 20 days on vacation, I almost have my certificate in hand. You do not have to have commercial insurance until your are ready to do commercial ops. It really shouldn't cost you any more than your time to complete the necessary paperwork. The other fixed costs that siegalaviation has mentioned are the same as you would have it it were a 91 operation.

The FSDO cannot deny you the certificate unless they have a reason. They cannot just refuse to accept new applications. The timelines mentioned earlier in this thread are exagerated. If you know what you are doing you should be able to get it done in 3-6 months. I have seen it done in less than 1 month. If you do not know what you are doing, PM me and I will give you the name and number of a great consultant friend of mine who has done numerous certifications at many different FSDO's who will help you for a small fee.
I plan to expand my certificate to a basic as soon as I get the single pilot one going.

 

[siegelaviation]

Iflyabeech:

How did you get your economic authority from the DOT? You can't get that until you have your insurance company fill out the OST-6410 form. You can't get that filled out until you have commercial insurance lined up. And from what I saw with the insurance companies, they require that you bind and start paying for that insurance before they will issue the OST 6410 form to the DOT.

I think there is a lot of variance in the time it takes to get the certificate due to staffing levels and motivation at each FSDO.

Mike

 

[iflyabeech]

Iflyabeech:

How did you get your economic authority from the DOT? You can't get that until you have your insurance company fill out the OST-6410 form. You can't get that filled out until you have commercial insurance lined up. And from what I saw with the insurance companies, they require that you bind and start paying for that insurance before they will issue the OST 6410 form to the DOT.

I think there is a lot of variance in the time it takes to get the certificate due to staffing levels and motivation at each FSDO.

Mike

The DOT forms do not have to be completed until your certificate is ready to be issued. It is the last thing to be done. Our FSDO was confused on this issue and told us it was the first thing to be done. I had provided a letter to them stating that we would start commercial insurance after taking the checkride and before starting commercial operations. In the meantime, we called the insurance company and asked them to fill out the 6410 form with the promise that we would start commercial ins. as soon as we are certified. They complied and Fed-Exed us the forms, which we sent to Washington and about 10 days later we had all the paperwork back in hand.
This has been our only delay so far and that is due to confusion at our FSDO. Our biggest problem seems to be the inexperience of our FSDO in the certification process.

 

[siegelaviation]

You would think the FAA would standardize the whole process. I am glad I just plunked down $2500 for a downpayment on insurance and $800 a month from here on out. Why do all the FSDO's go by their own rules? My POI said he needed the 6410 ASAP. Insurance company would not issue 6410 until I had commercial insurance in place. Oh well, I guess I can go out and do some more really expensive sightseeing/photo flights like I did last week.

 

[iflyabeech]

Yeah it is a big myth that the FAA is one agency. It sucks that every little FSDO can make thier own rules. My POI also said that I needed the 6410 to start, but he was mistaken. I think that many inspectors are just not familiar with the certification process and are too busy with other stuff to study up like we do.

 

[iflyabeech]

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/examiners_inspectors/8400/media/volume2/2_002_02.pdf


notice on page 3 of that PDF document. The DOT forms are due at gate 3 which is basically at the end of certification. It also says "recieved assurance of DOT economic authority" Gate one states that you must complete the application for economic authority.
In other words, you do not have to have the paperwork back until gate 3.

 

[kilroy]

I started my 135 single pilot certification process in mid-December. I am doing some international ops as well as IFR pax and cargo. Even with the FSDO being gone for about 20 days on vacation, I almost have my certificate in hand. You do not have to have commercial insurance until your are ready to do commercial ops. It really shouldn't cost you any more than your time to complete the necessary paperwork. The other fixed costs that siegalaviation has mentioned are the same as you would have it it were a 91 operation.

The FSDO cannot deny you the certificate unless they have a reason. They cannot just refuse to accept new applications. The timelines mentioned earlier in this thread are exagerated. If you know what you are doing you should be able to get it done in 3-6 months. I have seen it done in less than 1 month. If you do not know what you are doing, PM me and I will give you the name and number of a great consultant friend of mine who has done numerous certifications at many different FSDO's who will help you for a small fee.
I plan to expand my certificate to a basic as soon as I get the single pilot one going.

I'm curious as to what FSDO you are dealing with? The majority of the FSDO are now on a minimum of 8-12 months before you even get the initial meeting and thats if you are lucky. If you are looking to get a certificate in the Southeast good luck. the Miami FSDO closed doors and is trying to combine with FLL. Tampa is supposed to close and combine with ORL.

Up until 8 months ago it wasn't that bad applying and starting the application process. But since then the FAA has made some drastic changes a result of a couple of accidents Montrose and Teterboro. This led to the introduction of 8400.83http://web.nbaa.org/public/ops/part135/8400-83.pdf. Now this has the FAA in a tizzy trying to make sure all operators are compliant to this advisory. Of course each FSDO interperts this 8400.83 differently so now they are having to go back to region for help which ties up even more Fed's.

In a nutshell the Fed's work load has more then tripled in the last 6-8 months and they have lost numerous inspectors at the same time. Yes they are hiring some new inspectors but from the time the newbies are hired and on there own it is 2 years.

 

[iflyabeech]

We had problems trying to get the aircraft on another certificate due to the problems you are talking about. This is why we are getting our own certificate. We own both the airplane and the certificate. The problem is non-owned aircraft on a certificate.
I am in the Southeast. You need to make some phone calls and escalate above the FSDO level if it takes you 8-12 months for an initial meeting. I will try to find and post a recent memo on how long the FSDO has to deal with you on certification issues. I beleive it is 30 days but I am not sure. The Feds are understaffed, but that is no reason for them not to do their job. We pay them good money and great benefits and great vacations.

I'm curious as to what FSDO you are dealing with? The majority of the FSDO are now on a minimum of 8-12 months before you even get the initial meeting and thats if you are lucky. If you are looking to get a certificate in the Southeast good luck. the Miami FSDO closed doors and is trying to combine with FLL. Tampa is supposed to close and combine with ORL.

Up until 8 months ago it wasn't that bad applying and starting the application process. But since then the FAA has made some drastic changes a result of a couple of accidents Montrose and Teterboro. This led to the introduction of 8400.83http://web.nbaa.org/public/ops/part135/8400-83.pdf. Now this has the FAA in a tizzy trying to make sure all operators are compliant to this advisory. Of course each FSDO interperts this 8400.83 differently so now they are having to go back to region for help which ties up even more Fed's.

In a nutshell the Fed's work load has more then tripled in the last 6-8 months and they have lost numerous inspectors at the same time. Yes they are hiring some new inspectors but from the time the newbies are hired and on there own it is 2 years.

 

[kilroy]

Iflyabeech:

How did you get your economic authority from the DOT? You can't get that until you have your insurance company fill out the OST-6410 form. You can't get that filled out until you have commercial insurance lined up. And from what I saw with the insurance companies, they require that you bind and start paying for that insurance before they will issue the OST 6410 form to the DOT.

I think there is a lot of variance in the time it takes to get the certificate due to staffing levels and motivation at each FSDO.

Mike

You only need economic authority when you are operating for revenue not when you are in the application process don't throw your money out of the window because of a Fed who has no concept of money and regulations. I had a Fed tell me I had to fly 9 hours of non revenue flight hours to get authorization for Class 2 Navigation. This would of cost us $20 000 dollars. His reason for this was when I was flying a c-210 16 years ago this was the omnly way to get class 2 navigation flying these particulare routes crazy F()ckers.

 

[FL420]

From a previous thread:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=69492&highlight=135+certificate


If you insist on doing it yourself, plan on spending a lot of time sitting in the FSDO's outer office. FAA employees have a habit of accepting your paperwork submission then going off on vacation, training, Federal holidays, mental health sick days, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

The concept of time is money is incomprehensible to Fed's. I found the best way to get paperwork back in a timely manner was to call or visit everyday. Eventually, the boss will get tired of seeing you sitting in his outer office and make your prospective POI get off his ass and get your paperwork approved or pass the ball off to someone else while he's out of the office for the next two weeks.

Also, just like in an IRS audit, be prepared to have to teach your POI his job; especially if he is an FNG.

 

[iflyabeech]

From a previous thread:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=69492&highlight=135+certificate


If you insist on doing it yourself, plan on spending a lot of time sitting in the FSDO's outer office. FAA employees have a habit of accepting your paperwork submission then going off on vacation, training, Federal holidays, mental health sick days, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

The concept of time is money is incomprehensible to Fed's. I found the best way to get paperwork back in a timely manner was to call or visit everyday. Eventually, the boss will get tired of seeing you sitting in his outer office and make your prospective POI get off his ass and get your paperwork approved or pass the ball off to someone else while he's out of the office for the next two weeks.

Also, just like in an IRS audit, be prepared to have to teach your POI his job; especially if he is an FNG.

This is spot on. Especially the part about vacations and teaching your POI.