Getting a 135 Certificate

[iflyabeech]

Yeah it is a big myth that the FAA is one agency. It sucks that every little FSDO can make thier own rules. My POI also said that I needed the 6410 to start, but he was mistaken. I think that many inspectors are just not familiar with the certification process and are too busy with other stuff to study up like we do.

 

[iflyabeech]

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/examiners_inspectors/8400/media/volume2/2_002_02.pdf


notice on page 3 of that PDF document. The DOT forms are due at gate 3 which is basically at the end of certification. It also says "recieved assurance of DOT economic authority" Gate one states that you must complete the application for economic authority.
In other words, you do not have to have the paperwork back until gate 3.

 

[kilroy]

I started my 135 single pilot certification process in mid-December. I am doing some international ops as well as IFR pax and cargo. Even with the FSDO being gone for about 20 days on vacation, I almost have my certificate in hand. You do not have to have commercial insurance until your are ready to do commercial ops. It really shouldn't cost you any more than your time to complete the necessary paperwork. The other fixed costs that siegalaviation has mentioned are the same as you would have it it were a 91 operation.

The FSDO cannot deny you the certificate unless they have a reason. They cannot just refuse to accept new applications. The timelines mentioned earlier in this thread are exagerated. If you know what you are doing you should be able to get it done in 3-6 months. I have seen it done in less than 1 month. If you do not know what you are doing, PM me and I will give you the name and number of a great consultant friend of mine who has done numerous certifications at many different FSDO's who will help you for a small fee.
I plan to expand my certificate to a basic as soon as I get the single pilot one going.

I'm curious as to what FSDO you are dealing with? The majority of the FSDO are now on a minimum of 8-12 months before you even get the initial meeting and thats if you are lucky. If you are looking to get a certificate in the Southeast good luck. the Miami FSDO closed doors and is trying to combine with FLL. Tampa is supposed to close and combine with ORL.

Up until 8 months ago it wasn't that bad applying and starting the application process. But since then the FAA has made some drastic changes a result of a couple of accidents Montrose and Teterboro. This led to the introduction of 8400.83http://web.nbaa.org/public/ops/part135/8400-83.pdf. Now this has the FAA in a tizzy trying to make sure all operators are compliant to this advisory. Of course each FSDO interperts this 8400.83 differently so now they are having to go back to region for help which ties up even more Fed's.

In a nutshell the Fed's work load has more then tripled in the last 6-8 months and they have lost numerous inspectors at the same time. Yes they are hiring some new inspectors but from the time the newbies are hired and on there own it is 2 years.

 

[iflyabeech]

We had problems trying to get the aircraft on another certificate due to the problems you are talking about. This is why we are getting our own certificate. We own both the airplane and the certificate. The problem is non-owned aircraft on a certificate.
I am in the Southeast. You need to make some phone calls and escalate above the FSDO level if it takes you 8-12 months for an initial meeting. I will try to find and post a recent memo on how long the FSDO has to deal with you on certification issues. I beleive it is 30 days but I am not sure. The Feds are understaffed, but that is no reason for them not to do their job. We pay them good money and great benefits and great vacations.

I'm curious as to what FSDO you are dealing with? The majority of the FSDO are now on a minimum of 8-12 months before you even get the initial meeting and thats if you are lucky. If you are looking to get a certificate in the Southeast good luck. the Miami FSDO closed doors and is trying to combine with FLL. Tampa is supposed to close and combine with ORL.

Up until 8 months ago it wasn't that bad applying and starting the application process. But since then the FAA has made some drastic changes a result of a couple of accidents Montrose and Teterboro. This led to the introduction of 8400.83http://web.nbaa.org/public/ops/part135/8400-83.pdf. Now this has the FAA in a tizzy trying to make sure all operators are compliant to this advisory. Of course each FSDO interperts this 8400.83 differently so now they are having to go back to region for help which ties up even more Fed's.

In a nutshell the Fed's work load has more then tripled in the last 6-8 months and they have lost numerous inspectors at the same time. Yes they are hiring some new inspectors but from the time the newbies are hired and on there own it is 2 years.

 

[kilroy]

Iflyabeech:

How did you get your economic authority from the DOT? You can't get that until you have your insurance company fill out the OST-6410 form. You can't get that filled out until you have commercial insurance lined up. And from what I saw with the insurance companies, they require that you bind and start paying for that insurance before they will issue the OST 6410 form to the DOT.

I think there is a lot of variance in the time it takes to get the certificate due to staffing levels and motivation at each FSDO.

Mike

You only need economic authority when you are operating for revenue not when you are in the application process don't throw your money out of the window because of a Fed who has no concept of money and regulations. I had a Fed tell me I had to fly 9 hours of non revenue flight hours to get authorization for Class 2 Navigation. This would of cost us $20 000 dollars. His reason for this was when I was flying a c-210 16 years ago this was the omnly way to get class 2 navigation flying these particulare routes crazy F()ckers.

 

[FL420]

From a previous thread:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=69492&highlight=135+certificate


If you insist on doing it yourself, plan on spending a lot of time sitting in the FSDO's outer office. FAA employees have a habit of accepting your paperwork submission then going off on vacation, training, Federal holidays, mental health sick days, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

The concept of time is money is incomprehensible to Fed's. I found the best way to get paperwork back in a timely manner was to call or visit everyday. Eventually, the boss will get tired of seeing you sitting in his outer office and make your prospective POI get off his ass and get your paperwork approved or pass the ball off to someone else while he's out of the office for the next two weeks.

Also, just like in an IRS audit, be prepared to have to teach your POI his job; especially if he is an FNG.

 

[iflyabeech]

From a previous thread:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=69492&highlight=135+certificate


If you insist on doing it yourself, plan on spending a lot of time sitting in the FSDO's outer office. FAA employees have a habit of accepting your paperwork submission then going off on vacation, training, Federal holidays, mental health sick days, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

The concept of time is money is incomprehensible to Fed's. I found the best way to get paperwork back in a timely manner was to call or visit everyday. Eventually, the boss will get tired of seeing you sitting in his outer office and make your prospective POI get off his ass and get your paperwork approved or pass the ball off to someone else while he's out of the office for the next two weeks.

Also, just like in an IRS audit, be prepared to have to teach your POI his job; especially if he is an FNG.

This is spot on. Especially the part about vacations and teaching your POI.