Gemini new pay scale

[porra]

cbeyw,
I agree with you 100%.

 

[FlysFred]

any thoughts on a strike vote, right along with the NO vote? I think the company does not understand the level of frustration...

 

[dc10maniac]

Isn't the road show a waste of money ???

I'm sure everybody is going to VOTE NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

 

[jercdevil]

What a slap in the face. 4 years on a payfreeze and they give us this #%@^
Time to WALK!!!!!!!

 

[dhc8drvr]

It is pretty sad after 4 years of frozen pay. I thought the company would push for no longevity fix with the old scale, but I had no idea that a new pay scale would surface. Maybe smoke and mirrors, who knows.

Time will tell I guess....

 

[IHateMgmt]

Sorry to hear about it guys... whats the date you all vote this POS down?

 

[jercdevil]

July 20th. Just say no

 

[porra]

I believe it has to be voted by July-18.
I'm ready to walk...

 

[Classicdriver]

When are you suppose to come out of BK? I thought it was just a 60 - 90 day thing. Something happen along the way? Those prepackaged BK's have some serious timelines or airplanes start disappearing, ie. back to the owners.

I only ask because of an implied threat of the 1113 court action.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

4 year frozen pay is a pay cut. Inflation running 3-4% year equals about 13.2% pay cut in buying power.

 

[monyetbesar]

Comments and thoughts from some of my fellow GAC's

..
....Yeah I've talked with some more folks myself...I'm doubtful of ratification. I did talk to one Capt. who told me he was voting yes, ofcourse don't think he knows why..I've heard that this thing is tied to coming out of ch.11, however I'm skeptical of that since there is no mention of our contract in the ch.11 filing. If it were tied, that means there would be a known outcome....how could that be? So I think that rumor is BS...Also if the company says either ratify this or we continue ch.11 thats not negotiating in good faith which is a violation of the RLA. We are under contract, we are just in negotiations no biggie. Shoot, this thing voted down negotiations could continue for a while. The NMB has not been brought in, we are a long ways from even having a strike vote....So your right we just continue on




Well you friend was partially correct but when the comparison to the 2004 contract pay is displayed (which we never got) then that needs to be the issue. if the company is using that inlieu of the payfreeze at the table well then something ain't right. VOTE NO! and whay not wait until our whole memberdhip is able to vote? We had a huge class in June/July of last year. Timing?


I am sending these initial thoughts out to just a few friends. I am not including crewmember names. I am not sure these people want their names attatched at this early stage. I also think that that would be their decision not mine. The information is a good read as we approach a vote on the TA.


voting NO. I hope that it does not pass. If the union votes NO, then we'll continue under the current agreement. Our goal should still be to eliminate the pay freeze. I imagine that the company's position will be: OK, what do you want to give up in order to do that? I think our united position (assuming that we don't want to give up anything) is that we will have to be ready to call for a strike vote.

I'm convinced that if we want to get rid of the pay freeze, that's what it will take. World did very good with their strike. Gemini is making money--despite the fact that we're in bankruptcy. I think that in the event we vote to strike, the customers will put pressure on MGT to settle the issue or lose contracts. (Something we haven't had in our favor as yet.) Our MEC strike committee needs to talk with the World strike committee. I imagine ALPA HQ will not like that, but at this point who cares?​

I think that the last hearing in front of a judge to exit CH11 is scheduled for the 20th of July and then to exit bankruptcy 10 days after that. As slow as the MEC has been to get out details of the TA, I don't see any reason for them to rush word back to the company on the results of the vote...let them exit on schedule.​

Gotta be careful what I say on this here company site. Vulgar language can get a guy fired ya know I'd have to agree with what you say. From the sections I have seen we lose, lose, lose. Getting off the pay freeze ? Big deal when they revamp the pay schedule so bad that you never see current scheduled ten year
pay. The annual pay raises don't even keep up with inflation to say nothing of the losses we have absorbed over the last 4 years. It looks like home basing is up for grabs again. Pay credit gets set back, again. Carry overs are clearly and officially sanctioned. Selling vacation is officially marked at less than daily pay credit. Insurance premiums are guaranteed to increase. The new pay scale would put us in the same league as Omni, Kalitta, and Evergreen. Even World gets better than 140 after ten years. I can't believe that the committee guys have the guts to try and sell this dog. But then, maybe that is the management strategy, They want us to reject t his so they can keep on with their current abuse and shut us up about the freeze. What is the deal with the IRO? Some sweetener to get the fo's on board for this obscenity of a document.


I wholehartedly agree. This is an embarrasment, . The new guys I have talked to laughed at this. I would be frozen at my current pay rate until 4th year because of the pay cut... and the IRO issue. That is so the company can hire F/O's and not give a type rating...sigh...as though anyone is going to leave here because
they have a MD-11 type rating...


I'm incredibly disapointed. I will guarentee from my end that a NO vote is in the ofting.


I had at first thought that the company was gonna pay us for what we did in a month (not bid cycle) well I see thats not the case. If it had been even with the different scale one could make more money. So one thing I thought was a gain is not there. Also the IRO thing, that will really only benefit a few. I really don't see this passing. Which in it self is not a bad thing. Just means hey thanks but no thanks.I will however wait to cast my vote until after I listen to the roadshow. Another key thing is for everyone who can needs to vote......If it either fails by alot or passes by alittle it sends a good message of unity. Failing by alot is I think a more possible outcome


I sent a letter to the MEC last night saying this is a total farse

I see no increase in "quality of life" I was willing to take a smaller bump in pay to if the result was more days off or some other proper quality of life increase. We are giving up the carry in carry out grievence. If they have to pay for carry in or out, there would either be more $$ or more days off as a result. Not even close to keeping up with inflation. Also people here 6 years or less,
look at the old pay scale then what you can look forward to.. actually a pay cut..if you are looking ahead on the scale.. vs current scale


what killed me.. letter from company stating pay freeze is being lifted.. then an ALPA Fastread.. stating to all ALPA member.. congrats GAC.. pay freeze lifted and longevity restored.,. wonderful that an agreement has been made.. congrats etc..

then we waited 2 plus days for the details, happy family, individuals etc.. then a pay cut.. F.O.'s will gain 2.00 per hour to less than 2.00 per hour per year of service..Same for our fab.. F.E.'s and Captains.. well before 6 year party made 121.00 hr.. now 105.. look forward to that with 3-5.00 more per hour per year of service.. and the final bit.. man, locked into the carry in and out.. up to 4 days..no pay.. at all...
locks you into bidding carry over bids every month, or suffer 9 days off.. maybe 10 if you are lucky for the month...CRAP I can't wait to get the opportunity to VOTE NO... also the letter from company and the piece of crap from ALPA Fastread.. then the letdown.. all the more dissapointed and pissed off....and ALPA with the Fast read to the Airline world.. what a PR piece of crap.. kick in the stomach fomr GAC if you ask me.. ohh

did you guys also know that we have people here 12 months and a day making the same as people here 5 plus years.. 5 to 6 years on 2nd year pay.. those 12 months and a day.. second year pay as well.. how much can we take.. a not.. I am not against the 12 month and a day pilot having that pay increase.. not my point.. just the screw job

 

[Drill Sgt. Dad]

Enough B*tching, if it is that bad and insulting to the hard work you already do, and the days on end on the road, then vote no!!!!! Just do me one favor, if it is really awful, don't vote yes. You will be selling yourselves short like the regional carriers did and then, mgt will not walk all over you, but stomp all over you, if you give once they will expect you to give every time. I am not sure what you meant by not typing or getting around typing FOs.
I still can't figure out why MD-11 FOs get typed and the DC-10 only get SIC types either. Trust me, whether typing or not typing won't keep anyone from running to the door.
Good luck to those at GAC! You have my support.

 

[FlysFred]

I disagree...

I beg to differ, there hasn't been near enough B*tching...until the vote is final we should feel free to speak our minds on the issue.

After the vote, then its time be unified with the result.

I'd hate to see somebody vote yes without a complete airing of the details involved and the company members hearing from their colleagues.

Me, I'm voting NO and I'm happy to discuss why I am...

 

[Drill Sgt. Dad]

What I was saying, if the TA sucks, vote no and hell no!!! I would hate to see the ACMI carriers go the way of the regionals in being brought to their knees. After 4 years at a pay freeze, yes enough is enough. Wages definitely has never caught up to inflation, and at this point it will never do so. I am supporting those at GAC. I would hate to see y'all get sold down the river. I was shocked that ALPA in the Fastread made it sound like it was a good deal. I tried to get on over there but was not successful. But I harbor no ill will. In fact I am attempting to reapply. You guys have given up enough, and if GAC is proiftable, it's time to regain your share of the pie. You can speak your peace all you want, that's fine, but don't vote yes, if the TA stinx!! That's what I am trying to say. Don't be a Mesa and sell yourselves short. Like the legacies and the regionals, a line must be drawn as to how much pilot groups are willing to give. You'd be surprised how mgt has a backup plan to proceed without paycuts.
The louder mgt b*tches about how much labor is costing them, the more money they are making.
I've been through this game at two other carriers.

 

[FlysFred]

Thanks Drill Sgt. Dad,

I think we can do better than the current TA...and the first step is to vote it down.

After looking at the details finally put out on the ALPA site I cannot think of a single reason to vote for it. Hoping that my fellow GAC aviators see things the same way I do...sharing our opinions online is one way to get the word out, and let no one cast an uneducated vote.

Not sure when we'll be hiring again?

 

[Green]

GEMINI TENTATIVE AGREEMENT

Prob year (First Year)

CAPT - $83
F/O - $45
F/E - $55

year 2

CAPT - $89.76
F/O - $64.34
F/E - $57.10

YEAR 3

CAPT - $96.15
F/O - $66.27
F/E - $58.81

YEAR 4

CAPT - $99.03
F/O - $68.26
F/E - $60.57


YEAR 5

CAPT - $102.00
F/O - $70.31
F/E - $62.39

YEAR 6

CAPT - $105.06
F/O - $72.42
F/E - $64.26


YEAR 7

CAPT - $108.21
F/O - $74.59
F/E - $66.19

YEAR 8

CAPT - $113.46
F/O - $77.58
F/E - $70.39

YEAR 9

CAPT - $118.72
F/O - $80.68
F/O - $73.54


YEAR 10

CAPT - $125.02
F/O - $83.91
F/E - $77.74


YEAR 11

CAPT - $131.33
F/O - $87.26
F/E - $81.95

YEAR 12

CAPT - $135.27
F/O - $89.88
F/E - $84.41

YEAR 13

CAPT - $137.64
F/O - $91.44
F/E - $85.71

YEAR 14

CAPT - $140.00
F/O - $93.00
F/E - $87.00



VOTE NO-NO-NO-NO-NO-NO-NO-NO-NO-NO-NO

OUCH!!! 4yr captain on a widebody making $99/hr.????? That should be second year f/o pay. Good luck guys/gals.

 

[monyetbesar]

Drill Sarg.. really did not mean to come off as "bitching" I sent out a feeler to my fellow crewmembers to get a feel for their thoughts. This was more to find relief knowing that most of us will vote NO. The thought of it going through.. well, what a horrible thought. Some of the points were very important to get out.. such as the idea of we can not come out of bankrupcy without sucking on this TA and voting yes.total nonsense... I admit I find relief that my fellow crewmembers are against this TA. Also the NO vote seems to come from alll seniority levels and seats..

I appreciate your support for our group. I would like to add.. when something is so awful, and not right.. GO HIGH PROFILE.. let others see it.. get it out there.. even for our fellow crewmembers working for other carriers.. that is the second reason for my post. I would also like to thanks the GAC's who have posted the scale etc...

 

[cbeyw]

I will vote no and it will be the best decision I'd ever make...

 

[Drill Sgt. Dad]

Ask your negotiating committee what were they thinking about when agreeing to anything that is subpar. Just because a carrier is in bankrupcy, they just can't go running to the judge begging an 1113c. Look at Mesaba, the judge denied mgt that. They would have to prove your labor agreement and wages are a burden and contirbuting to the factors of why the company is in chapter 11. After 4 years of pay freezes, that'll be hard to do. I can only hope you have ALPA's support and their willingness to defend the pilot group.
Stay unified, "United you stand divided you beg.

 

[IHateMgmt]

Ask your negotiating committee what were they thinking about when agreeing to anything that is subpar. Just because a carrier is in bankrupcy, they just can't go running to the judge begging an 1113c. Look at Mesaba, the judge denied mgt that. They would have to prove your labor agreement and wages are a burden and contirbuting to the factors of why the company is in chapter 11. After 4 years of pay freezes, that'll be hard to do. I can only hope you have ALPA's support and their willingness to defend the pilot group.
Stay unified, "United you stand divided you beg.

I wouldn't use Mesaba as your example. While its true that the judge denied the first 1113c attempt, he left if open for a re-filing, which mgmt did immediately. The judge said he will reach a decision on the second filing the week of July 10th... and it doesn't look good at this point. Mesaba is set up to be ruined by mgmt with the lowest wages in the industry, and from the looks of it, your mgmt proposed about the same thing. Don't let it go even half as far as it did at Mesaba. Best of luck Gemini pilots.

-IHM

 

[vindiesel]

I think green put it best, 99.00 for a 4 year widebody captain is about what the fo should be making. I came here with the expectation that the payscales, would reflect a certain income, now they are trying to bump them backwards? if we had a 100 hour guarantee, I would be alright, but the limited OT, the scrounging of perdiem, and the seriously low pay in year one all suck. When I was hired, I did not even know about the pay freeze, no one said anything until indoc. I then heard we would go to second year pay and the pay freeze would be lifted. well here I am coming up on my third year and with the new payscales won't see a raise for another year and a half. I will only get a 2 dollar an hour raise, about 100 dollars a month? to disappear from the continent and go slumming in africa 18 days a month? had I seen the proposed payscales when I was interviewing, I would have said no, I would be better off at a regional or fractional.
Please MEC tell us how we benefit from this BOVINE EXCREMENT???
VOTE NO!

 

[Draginass]

Well, I suppose it will turn out just like US Air, UAL, DAL, NW et al . . . . . if "they" decide to cut your pay and you show up for work, then that's what you're worth. The CEO's know that. The only way to get their attention is to figuratively burn the place down and force the owners to go withough revenue for several months while scabs are trained. S

If you show up for work for $55 an hour. . . . then I guess you're worth $55.

 

[dc10maniac]

No secrets to put this together ... be UNITED.... VOTE NO

 

[monyetbesar]

I trashed the ALPA Fast read "congrats GAC on TA" If anyone still has it.. please post it here.. ALPA congrats coupled with a letter from the company stating that the pay freeze is history.. a couple of days to feel good.. followed by a new payscale we didn't see coming, pay cut!!.. what a zinger that was..
ALPA did us wrong by putting out a BS statement ignoring that we were getting a pay cut!! misleading to All ALPA memebers.. also stated 3 % raise included..
If anyone has a copy please post.

 

[2LT]

Thanks, but no thanks...

Gemini Crewmembers to Vote on Labor Contract That Ends 4-Year Pay Freeze
After four years without pay increases, Gemini crewmembers will vote on a labor contract that not only ends the pay freeze but also increases compensation by an aggregate 3 percent for flying both the DC-10F and MD-11F.
The labor contract also increases the pay for the International Relief Officer.
During contract talks, a detailed examination of the company was conducted, including an in-depth economic analysis by ALPA’s Economic & Financial Analysis Department to verify that the company would be able to meet the pay increases since the TA was reached as the company is still trying to emerge from bankruptcy.
According to the TA, crewmembers serving as International Relief Officers will now be paid an additional $5 per hour beyond their regular hourly rate. Also, the Gemini crewmembers' longevity was reinstated--the crewmembers will get back the years they lost during the pay freeze. The pay scale had to be adjusted to account for new crewmembers' pay versus the pay of those who have longevity.
The negotiating committee stayed in constant communication with the crewmembers and provided them with regular updates.
"I am pleased we were able to reach an agreement that will allow Gemini Air Cargo and its crewmembers to move forward," says Capt. BA, Gemini MEC chairman. “This agreement contains several positives for all of our crewmembers, including the lifting of a four-year pay freeze and compensation improvements over the life of the agreement.”
BJ, director of operations of Gemini Air Cargo, says, “We believe this contract is good for the company and for crewmembers, and it meets the criteria we established for the resolution of this process. I am gratified with the agreement we have reached and am proud of the valuable contribution that our experienced, professional pilots and flight engineers make to Gemini.”

The contract is subject to ratification by the Gemini members of ALPA, and ratification voting will take place over the next several weeks.​

 

[J. Basedow]

First of all, let me say that I too will vote "NO" to this TA. I have been here 7 years and would rather se this company go under than take any more crap and low pay. If every other cargo company is making money right now and ATLAS who also has gone thru bankruptcy recently can afford to pay its 6 year Captains $150.00 per hour, commercial its crewmembers Business Class and has a matching 401K then so should Gemini. Otherwise it is time to get entirely new management.

Secondly, I have spoken to the MEC as recent as last Thursday and he said that after looking at the books with ALPA that we cannot expect to get any more from Gemini because the company just isn't making enough money to give us more. While a company is in Bankruptcy seems to be a pretty hard time to "hide money' from a bankruptcy judge and ALPA so not sure what the answer is.

Thirdly, any dispariaging remarks about this MEC obviously comes from someone who doesn't know him. He is an extremely professional pilot, very easy to fly with, a VietNam Vet, and one of the most upstanding people that I have ever had the opportunity to know and we couldn't do any better with anyone else at Gemini right now. He has been working 12 hour days every day of the week to stay ahead of both the bankruptcy issue as well as the TA. I do agree that this TA should have never been put to a vote because it is so pathetic but I didn't have the priviledge of attending the negotiations.

Lets "stay strong" and vote this down and hope for a better future.

 

[billjohnson321]

Is gemini busy right now? I am confused as to why Gemini is having so many problems with the acmi business.I was under the impression that long haul international ops demand was strong.Has Gemini lost some contracts or something?If the airplanes are moving they should make a profit on negotiated contracts.Just wondering,stand strong.

 

[dhc8drvr]

Good question, Gemini should be profitable, esp since the wages have been frozen for four years. The MD-11s are contracted, and for the time being most of the DC-10's are also. (one in heavy check).

Current pay scale with longevity fix!

 

[Classicdriver]

Remember, there's a lot of pressure in the ACMI business, with all these new startups, Focus, 360, ect. They are charging low rates, flight times vs block times and accepting short term contracts. Ten years ago, a long term contract was 3 to 5 years, now their measured in months.

Also consider the extra pressure of Gemini being in a small three holer market vs the 747 market.

As far as your MEC accepting this TA, I can asssure there is a story to be told by all the folks involved. Ask them.

Stay united, but keep your eyes and ears open.

 

[billjohnson321]

the md-11 has excellent economics vs the old 747's.it carries a buttload at a fraction of the cost,just ask fed ex or ups it is no coincidence they suck all of them off the market.