G2 in HOU / Aircraft Down in Houston / Gulfstream crashes @ KHOU

[Bandit60]

ILS OTS


Here is the approach plates for VOR/DME 4

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/approach/pdfs/00198VD4.PDF

As stated by some others, if an accident happens while shooting an approach it is shut down until the FAA does a flight check on that approach. I would assume that they shot the ILS since the Vor approach is still up and running.

 

[2000flyer]

First, look at the METAR:

KHOU 221309Z 13004KT 2SM BR SCT001 SCT025 BKN090 OVC250 22/22 A3002 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 2 1/2 $

KHOU 221253Z 12005KT 1/8SM BR BKN001 BKN006 OVC050 22/22 A3002 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 1 1/4 SLP169 T02170217 $

KHOU 221237Z 12003KT 1/8SM FG SCT001 OVC006 22/21 A3002 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 1/2 $

KHOU 221227Z 00000KT 1/8SM FG BKN001 OVC006 22/21 A3001 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 1/2 $

KHOU 221205Z 00000KT 1/8SM FG BKN001 BKN006 OVC055 22/21 A3001 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 1/2

Even when the AO2 visibility was 1/8SM, check out the remarks, "SFC VIS 1/2." This would allow the crew to attempt the approach. Its been many many years since I flew 135, but aren't positioning legs operated under Part 91? If so, the weather can be reported as 0/0 and you can shoot the approach all day long. What was the vis/cig at nearby airports? Did they launch knowing they had a local out if the weather didn't improve by their ETA? All this, of course, is speculation on our part.

An interesting synopsis came up on NBAA's message board. It concerned the light pole struck by the aircraft and it's relation to the ALS system of RWY4. The inference being if the light was aligned with the runway ALS could it have been mistaken and the crew descended below minimums thinking they were at the beginning of the ALS? Situational awareness I know, but it was an interesting thought.

2000Flyer

 

[mayday1]

1) WHY was this flight launched out of KDAL when the published METARS were so sh1tty at KHOU? Is it going to "clear up" after 20 minutes when they arrive?
100 and 1/8?

Have no idea, other than they might have felt unusual pressure to make the flight - picking up the former president and all.

 

[starchkr]

Yes they can take off with the weather 0/0 at destination, they can also shoot an approach with 0/0 if they wish. I rememeber reading awhile back a story where the guy went down the approach 0/0 and continued past DH to land without ever seeing the runway and he was legal because he was 91...and he had the "ba!!s" to do it. Is this still true, can you continue all the way to touchdown if 91 without ever seeing the runway? If so that could lead to another reason an aircraft could get so low on an approach with false signals. I don't know, i just think it is fishy that they would have most likely had their radar altimeter on, their ILS tuned in, their DME's tuned(ILS), two altimeters tuned (even if set incorrectly, still not enough to be 1000'+ low at that point on the approach), and if equipped a GPWS blaring at them, plus lets add in that we have heard nothing of the tower questioning them about their altitude that far out on the approach (wether it be an ILS or a VOR/DME). Hopefully the boxes will tell the story, they were both recoverred yesterday.

 

[Vik]

You can legally shoot the approach as Part 91, but you CANNOT land unless you have 1 of 10 items in sight. Its in FAR Part 91.

If you do and a fed catches you, I guess its his word against yours whether you saw anything or not.

Yes they can take off with the weather 0/0 at destination, they can also shoot an approach with 0/0 if they wish. I rememeber reading awhile back a story where the guy went down the approach 0/0 and continued past DH to land without ever seeing the runway and he was legal because he was 91...and he had the "ba!!s" to do it. Is this still true, can you continue all the way to touchdown if 91 without ever seeing the runway? If so that could lead to another reason an aircraft could get so low on an approach with false signals. I don't know, i just think it is fishy that they would have most likely had their radar altimeter on, their ILS tuned in, their DME's tuned(ILS), two altimeters tuned (even if set incorrectly, still not enough to be 1000'+ low at that point on the approach), and if equipped a GPWS blaring at them, plus lets add in that we have heard nothing of the tower questioning them about their altitude that far out on the approach (wether it be an ILS or a VOR/DME). Hopefully the boxes will tell the story, they were both recoverred yesterday.

 

[FN FAL]

You can legally shoot the approach as Part 91, but you CANNOT land unless you have 1 of 10 items in sight. Its in FAR Part 91.

If you do and a fed catches you, I guess its his word against yours whether you saw anything or not.

True...the view from the cockpit is nice, but it would be pretty hard for any pilot to PROVE he could see a half mile...just as it would be hard for the FEDS to prove he couldn't.

 

[FracCapt]

Its been many many years since I flew 135, but aren't positioning legs operated under Part 91? If so, the weather can be reported as 0/0 and you can shoot the approach all day long.

The 135 companies that I've worked for all had policies regarding minimums, flight times, and duty times, that specified that even if we are empty we treat it as a 135 flight. A couple I worked for didn't specify that, but they were freight operations where 99% of all legs were revenue anyways. As far as I remember it, if you are positioning TO a revenue trip(without a legal rest period between the repo and revenue trip) then you are 135. If you are positioning at the end of a duty day, it's a 91 trip - but cannot be considered rest.

From what I recall from the 135 days, this could vary FSDO to FSDO.

 

[trip]

I thought it was min. inflight visibilty + the required ALS or runway enviroment etc.

 

[LarryinTN]

The ILS 4 requires 1800 RVR. There's nothing in those METARs to indicate that they did not have 1800 RVR.

 

[Dr Pokenhiemer]

91.175