G2 in HOU / Aircraft Down in Houston / Gulfstream crashes @ KHOU

[C601]

Jet to Pick Up Elder Bush Was Warned

[size=-1]The controller talked with the aircraft approximately two minutes before the accident and asked them to check their altitude because they saw them at somewhere approximately 400 feet," said Rosenker.[/size]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041123/ap_on_re_us/jet_crash

 

[Bandit60]

[size=-1]The controller talked with the aircraft approximately two minutes before the accident and asked them to check their altitude because they saw them at somewhere approximately 400 feet," said Rosenker.[/size]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041123/ap_on_re_us/jet_crash

And your point is......

If they shot the ILS then even if their altimeters were way off, it still shouldn't affect the glideslope. He should have been able to follow the GP all the way to the ground without hitting anything. (Not saying you should follow it all the way to the ground)

 

[HAZ-MAT]

Maybe they didn't switch their altimeters when they transitioned out of FL180.
But a difference from 29.92 to 30.02 isn't that great, so mines more of a guess.

 

[Negative Prist]

Interesting that the aircraft that was to pick up the 41st president crashed on the 41st anniversary of Kennedy's death. As well as the fact that Love Field played a role in both tragedies.

 

[TonyC]

Interesting that the aircraft that was to pick up the 41st president crashed on the 41st anniversary of Kennedy's death. As well as the fact that Love Field played a role in both tragedies.

It's a conspiracy, I tell ya.

I was always very suspicious that a single light pole could take the jet down. Obviously, there had to have been another obstacle coming from the direction of the grassy knoll.

 

[CF34-3B1]

It's a conspiracy, I tell ya.

I was always very suspicious that a single light pole could take the jet down. Obviously, there had to have been another obstacle coming from the direction of the grassy knoll.

I bet it turns out there were chem trails involved................

 

[ms6073]

The inference being if the light was aligned with the runway ALS could it have been mistaken and the crew descended below minimums thinking they were at the beginning of the ALS?

The light pole that the aircraft contacted is part of the large Tollway system that sort of forms an outer loop around Houston. At the point where the aircraft impacted the light pole, the roadway where the lightpole resides expands from 2 lanes to 4 lanes wide. This is due to the fact that there is a toll station that spans the entire roadway about 200-300 meters to the West of the light polls location. Soomething to consider is that although the lights are evenly spaced along the edges of the roadway, that section of the roadway runs East-West.

While hopefully avoiding a hint at speculation, I offer a scenario that pilots familiar with Hobby and its runways might understand. There is a 4-lane divided city street (Telephone road) that runs along the western perimeter of the airport as well as an East-West roadway (Braniff) along the Southern perimeter. Aircraft landing on runway 4 would cross over Telephone road just before they crossed over the perimeter security fence (here is a mapquest link to help illustrate - reduce the zoom to see the tollway): http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&countryid=US&addtohistory=&searchtab=address&searchtype=address&address=9000+TELEPHONE+RD&city=Houston&state=Tx&zipcode=&search=++Search++++

Now although there is a large variance in the amount/type of lighting on the Tollway where the accident occured versus the roadways adjacent to the airport (again only offering scenarios), in a reduced visibility situation while on approach, I could see were a flight crew might find the visual cues observed crossing over the tollway to be similar to those observed shortly before crossing the fence at the airport. The obvious difference would be that if on the instrument approach, either ILS or localizer, none of the indications from flight instruments would support what the crew would be seeing seeing out the windscreen.

 

[TIS]

You can legally shoot the approach as Part 91, but you CANNOT land unless you have 1 of 10 items in sight. Its in FAR Part 91.

Not quite. There is only ONE requirement to land - you must have the IN FLIGHT visibility prescribed in the approach procedure being conducted. That's it! Nothing about runway environment, being in a position to land using normal maneuvers and procedures, approach lights, or the runway environemnt in sight. Those are all requirements to operate at an altitude lower than DA or MDA.

If you do and a fed catches you, I guess its his word against yours whether you saw anything or not.

This is why, if you're going to land in sketchy conditions you'd better have your story straight. There are ways to construct your story about what you saw andd when you saw it that will PROVE the in flight visibility point you need to make. For example, you're over the MM and you can see ahlfway down a 6000' runway.

That's an in flight visibility of over 1 mile no matter what kind of mile you're dealing with. MM are (usually) 3,500' from the runway + 3000' (1/2 the runway) = 6,500'. If that's what you argue you will prove the visibility. The real question is whether the ALJ will believe you. In my experience, if you need to use these tactics however, you're really stretching the limits of safety. JMO

TIS

 

[CRFLyPutt]

Pretty sure I was on the radio at the same time. We were going in to IAH from SLW. The ILS was out of service at HOU this morning. I heard appch clear some kind of GA jet for the VOR appch. Wx was terrible this morning, with vis 1/16th at IAH.


box

This makes no sense! Why would Approach clear an aircraft on a VOR approach to weather this low? Pretty sure it was an ILS approach.

 

[CRFLyPutt]

He was on course... the wreckage lies along the approach path to rwy 4. At that point of the approach there is no way he should have been at 75' AGL...which is how high the tower was. Kinda leads you to think that the approach was not the problem, but something that happened during the approach.

For sure!

Earlier that day the ILS was TU (tits up) and aircraft were shooting the VOR approach into Runway 4. I know because the Lear 55 I was supposed to fly was holding, and was late which delayed my departure time out of HOU due to the ILS being out of service. It was working when we got back to HOU after a quick turn out of Canada. I shot the ILS approach about 6 hours prior to the crash, although we could see the airport as we turned final just NE of the Missouri City Antenas, everything seemed OK. Our Baron pilot was the last person to shoot the approach prior to the accident. This was around 2AM, about 4 hours before the Gulfstream. He told the Feds everything seemed OK. Obviously, he made it in with no problem.

At the spot on Beltway 8 where the Gulfstream clipped the light, if you are on the ILS 4 glideslope your altitude should be between 1300-1400 feet.