G0-Jet Pay Scales

[h25b]

and that is all a little scumbag like you needs. The battle continues.

That's all you've got ??? Face it, your little post about ALPA National proves nothing other than it was merely Worthless glad handing the TSA group. BFD ?? Ever since the NMB ruling what exactly has national done for your cause ? Zip, nada, nothing... It's over...

 

[h25b]

You never responded months ago when I compared this to the whining corporate pilots do about 135 and frax pilots dragging down their salaries. You've said multiple times you are out of 121 aviation, so quit spending your time on the Regionals board.

What, huh ??? When was this ? You need to take me up on the beer offer so we can straighten this out ... I don't remember any GJ pilot using any excuses on why they went to work there. They're just going to work. You're the one bringing your personal problems in to this mess. Like I said, nobody cares...

Thanks for all the career advice, has the lamination on your Air Wisky ID even cooled yet ??? Those things need to cool off before you wear them you know...

 

[redbook]

That's all you've got ??? Face it, your little post about ALPA National proves nothing other than it was merely Worthless glad handing the TSA group. BFD ?? Ever since the NMB ruling what exactly has national done for your cause ? Zip, nada, nothing... It's over...

G0jet is an alter ego airline....alll that is over is g0jet pilot careers. But hey if it is over, why do you keep posting?

Two post ago you state that anyone who lets a union decide their actions is wrong, but now you say since National is silent its "over".

Sorry, wrong again. You sound desperate.

 

[h25b]

G0jet is an alter ego airline....alll that is over is g0jet pilot careers. But hey if it is over, why do you keep posting?

Two post ago you state that anyone who lets a union decide their actions is wrong, but now you say since National is silent its "over".

Sorry, wrong again. You sound desperate.

In case you haven't noticed, the NMB is the final authority on these types of disputes. They clearly ruled that GJ's is not an alter ego. Your union is guiding your anti-logic. It's how the system, of which your union is a part of, works.. This isn't desperation, it's a fact.

 

[BoilerUP]

More personal attacks from h25b with no substance.

You've said twice you'd buy me a beer and tell me to my face you don't give a sh!t about me and twice you've failed to tell us that you could look a TSA FO in the eye and tell him a GJ pilot didn't do anything immoral or unethical in taking that job. Was the question really that difficult, or you simply forgot to answer?

Thanks but no thanks to your gracious offer; I don't want your beer and I really don't care to meet you. Unlike some on this board, I don't take people insulting my friends or my career progression personally. Good luck with the kid(s) - and I mean that.

 

[h25b]

More personal attacks from h25b with no substance.

You've said twice you'd buy me a beer and tell me to my face you don't give a sh!t about me and twice you've failed to tell us that you could look a TSA FO in the eye and tell him a GJ pilot didn't do anything immoral or unethical in taking that job. Was the question really that difficult, or you simply forgot to answer?

Now, now Paul,

You can't read either... ???... This I think will be the third time I have gladly offered to meet you or any TSA pilot over a beer to politely discuss (eye to eye if you insist) why I think this is all a bunch of hog wash. Like I said, a few months ago I extended this offer to someone on this board and so far haven't ever heard back...

As for personal attacks, again, if you slowly read (left to right, top to bottom, in sequencial order through the pages of this thread) you'll find that you were the one starting off with the personal attacks (also with no substance) against me.

Keep fighting the good fight, "Skippy" ... :beer: You do, on a regular basis, slam and insult a friend of mine. I don't take it personally either, you just haven't been around long enough to know any better.

 

[Philerup]

If you are considering going to Go-jets I would encourage you to do it. I have been reading this post and I can't not comment. All you people at TSA threatining newbies, I mean really. So what if some kid fresh out of school goes to Go-Jets. If it was such a big deal you should have walked out and shut the muther down. But instead you want to threaten the new guys and try to make them do the job you were too impotent to do. And I know about illegal work actions, but tell that to the bus drivers in NYC. Why should some kid give up a chance at a rapid upgrade just to fight your fight? What do they get out of it?

To the new guys: Don't let these people scare you. I have been in this industry for 6 years now and have played by the rules. Built 1500 hours over three years, flew 135 freight for a year, and now at my current job in the right seat of a turbo-prop. Meanwhile, I have seen people who PFT and what not advance on up in their careers. Don't screw yourselves for some stupid idealistic cause that has nothing to do with you. Look out for number 1 first, because none of these guys are going to look out for you. As far as the threats about your career being over if you go to Go-Jets. Well in case you don't know this career pretty much sucks anyway. Go to Go-Jets, get your 1000 PIC quickly, and give it a shot. If you never get hired anywhere else and get blackballed out of the industry, it may be a blessing in disguise.

 

[FlyHIToo]

ALPA President to Trans States Management: We'll Cooperate, but We're Not Backing Down
ST LOUIS, MO - The head of the union that represents pilots at St. Louis-based Trans States Airlines today told pilots at a rally at Lambert Airport that the union is taking a carrot-and-stick approach to resolving labor issues at the airline.
"I have come here today to personally issue a public challenge to your management to alter the course that they have taken in dealing with their pilots," said Capt. Duane Woerth, president of the Air Line Pilots Association, International, in remarks prepared for the rally.
"I have come to challenge them to work cooperatively with our union to help build this airline for the future. And I have come to offer to help promote new business opportunities for this airline and new job opportunities for its ALPA pilots. I am convinced that, together, we can build Trans States into a strong, solid company for decades to come," Woerth said.
"I have also come here to draw public attention to the fact that, sadly, our efforts to discuss the issues before us in cooperation with the company have, to date, met with little to no success. Using only the most tenuous thread of justification, Trans States management has sought to create an alter-ego carrier that they intend to staff with pilots not sheltered by an ALPA-bargained contract," he said.
"In response to this tactic, we have been forced to file a grievance concerning this alter-ego carrier, because management has made it clear that ************************* exists solely to evade ALPA and the TSA-ALPA agreement. The clearest proof? Management's premature and illegal attempt to install a separate union before ************************* employs any pilots or begins operations. While management's public claim that a contractual restriction makes it impossible to extend the ALPA contract to larger jets, I assure you that we can readily overcome this very common obstacle," Woerth said

Redbook....
Thanks for proving my point. This post you have posted above is the last time ALPA spoke on this subject. May 2005 nearly 1 whole year ago.

Ever since the TSA pilots voted down the flying...and the NMB researched the two companies and issued their ruling, ALPA has not done anything. Why? Because they know there is no fight. They know there is no Alter-Ego. They even told the TSA pilots that a single carrier filing was a long shot before the vote and that the LOA they voted down was most likely the only way to get the GJ flying. ALPA National knows there is no point to argue anymore. GJ will be a seperate carrier under the IBT and TSA will be under ALPA.

 

[h25b]

Redbook....
Thanks for proving my point. This post you have posted above is the last time ALPA spoke on this subject. May 2005 nearly 1 whole year ago.

You're correct, here's the link from ALPA's website.

http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/ALPA_Documents/ALPA_DocumentsView.aspx?itemid=1499&ModuleId=506&TabId=93

Gee, we should all shutter at ALPA's fierce opposition to this dire situation...

Nearly one year ago, dated May 10, 2005...

 

[KingKong2]

This is a story of courage and diligence. The courage to take a stand, and the diligence to see it through.There was once a company in the regional airline industry that commanded the seventh largest US domestic airline carrier position. That company started in the early eighties and went through several name transitions to end up with Trans States Airlines (TSA) as it is known today. The airline made its mark in the industry as a company that code shared, or provided feeder service, with major airlines to fill a niche that seemed to be a growing trend by the majors in an attempt to defray the costs of an inefficient and outdated hub and spoke business model. An additional benefit to the major airlines by code sharing with smaller carriers was the more cost effective smaller jets that could be scheduled more frequently, thereby allowing more travelers access to more cities at a fraction of the cost that it took to fly larger airplanes fewer times a day.

Even labor was cheaper. In this industry you get "paid for what you push", and the regional carriers were pushing nothing larger than fifty seaters instead of the two hundred and fifty seaters that the majors still had in inventory. Competition for code share agreements became tighter and wages for pilots and crew began to decline as labor is commonly the only mallable factor that allows a regional carrier to compete with other regional carriers in the same class.

TSA, a private company owned by a single individual, had been successful through its resourcefulness in tough times to capture opportunity that larger public companies found difficult to move on because of the very nature of their corporate structure. Uninhibited by investors or shareholders, TSA could make decisions quickly to take advantage of new market opportunities before other companies could make up their mind. The strategy worked, but the market was about to change to follow a new trend that TSA, through all of its resourcefulness, would not legally be able to partake. Researching its code share agreements with other airlines, particularly American, TSA was limited by Union clauses that limited it to flying jet aircraft to fifty seats or less. This limitation allowed TSA to help American grow its American Connection business model to a substantial size, which in turn brought TSA into the jet market almost doubling its aircraft inventory. What the industry didn't know was that this market would saturate very quickly, forcing the majors to start looking at larger aircraft once again. The fifty seat jets were just not large enough nor profitable enough to meet industry demand.

An overhaul of the major airlines existing aircraft fleet was simply too expensive, especially with the profit losses from poor business models and looming bankruptcies that plagued the industry. If that were possible, the majors would not need the regionals. New code share agreements for larger equipment, primarily the seventy to one hundred seat range, would be an immediate answer to the problem. United Airlines was among the first to announce that it would code share all of its domestic route structure to the regionals. Most regional airlines were making money and had the capital to invest in new aircraft, but were locked out by scope clauses in their contracts and could not accept these new opportunities to fly larger aircraft in code share agreements with the majors. TSA was among them.

Imagine the feeling of surviving decades just to be shut out at the very moment it seemed the market was finally opening up to the underdogs. There had to be a way. Something had to change.

It was then that the idea to start a parent company came into play for TSA, and that is when Trans States Holdings (TSH) was born. Creating a parent company allowed for the pursuit of a completely new certificate, separate from TSA, that would allow the purchase of larger aircraft and the acceptance of the new market opportunities uninhibited by scope clauses or contractual obligations. This process would take some time, but it was the intent of TSH to start immediately to increase their chances of success once everything was in place. They needed to create the new Holding company, staff it, then start the ball rolling on creating a new certificate under TSH. Everything would be controlled by TSH, and TSA would still be able to honor its contractual scope clause agreements with its code share carriers, thus keeping the business that already had.

It was brilliant. Not that this hadn't happened before, but that it would happen quickly enough to be one of only a handful of competitors in this new market. Something that was direly necessary in order to secure the future of TSH, which included TSA. The new certificate would eventually be called GJ Airlines, LLC. As a separate carrier controlled by TSH, this new company would be the vehicle that all would instill new hope to carry TSH into the future of US domestic air travel. Or would it...

The TSA pilots saw this new sister company as a threat to their very existence, and not at all a savior of their future even though the mjority of the TSA pilot group has an average 75% turn- over rate. Pilots came to TSA to get the coveted FAA Part 121 Pilot In Command (PIC) hours and move on to a major airline, thereby effectively using the airline as a stepping stone to "higher" employment.

Even so, local ALPA union leadership for TSA immediately began a campaign against GJ and publicly persecuted anyone who "crossed the line" to help start this new company. Demeaning comments and derogatory statements were published on internet lounges, ie. www.tsalounge.com and www.flightinfo.com, and printed on flyers handed out at various airports around the country in an attempt to build an atmosphere of fear for anyone who would dare work at GJGJ employees were quickly labeled "scabs", which is a term used for individuals who cross a picket line during a strike. They were also labeled non-union employees even as they were courted by one of the largest unions in the country, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. They were accused of helping in the "race to the bottom" by accepting poor working conditions and low pay even though a union contract was in negotiation with industry average or better figures. Blacklists were created by TSA pilots as a scare tactic against new hires at GJ in an attempt to make them quit or defamate their character. Propaganda websites were created to elevate the level of awareness TSA pilots believed the industry should know, i.e. www.GJpilots.com. ALPA filed lawsuits and Alter-Ego grievances stating GJ as a "pariah" alter-ego in the industry and that it was illegally being created to circumvent TSA and ALPA. Skywest Airlines, a true non-union carrier who would also be a major competitor in this new market setting the industry standard on the low side, did not even get this kind of treatment directed against its company or pilots.

CONT>>>>>>>>>>>>