G-IV overrun CYQX

[rice]

I second that! Its one thing to ask a question and another to question how us corporate guys could let a king air pilot make more than a BBJ guy.

I am a big fan of the corporate structure which doesn't require years and years of sitting reserve in a sh#*bag city to make a living. Nothing against the airline guys (my pops is a 28 year legacy vet that is still a FO to get the schedule he wants) but its apples and oranges. I am more than pleased that my career is an never will be dictated by date of hire!

That said; what does any of this have to do with the original thread?

Absolutely nothing, say it again.

 

[semperfido]

Hey pops no offense, but your inquiries were so patronizing and so stupid everyone assumed you were busting balls.

This sums it up.

 

[aa73]

"Sheeez folks Iz an airline pilot and dont get around the corporate folk much, so what do I know! - yawls sure are arrogant"

Hey pops no offense, but your inquiries were so patronizing and so stupid everyone assumed you were busting balls.

Please indicate where I came off as patronizing/stupid. If I offended you guys in any way asking what seems to me to be a fair question, please accept my apologies. But it really comes as a surprise to me that the corporate piloting profession can be so splintered so as to allow a radically different pay scale between a global jet (BBJ) and a regional turboprop (King Air) whereby the King Air pilot makes almost triple what the BBJ pilot makes. It seems really wrong to me. Wouldn't the BBJ pilot making $50k have ANYTHING to say about that? And why would he take that job when he could be making triple flying a King Air? Sorry, but the logic just doesn't add up for me. Again, apologies if I came off the wrong way but I'm really curious as to how this can happen in your field. Thanks for any input. Your "lowly" airline compadre,
73

 

[SansPlane]

We all enjoy comparing notes. Sometimes they do not understand parts of my job, and sometimes I do not understand the union issues since I am not in that side of the industry and am not informed enough to make an opinion on one of their issues.

Not being informed rarely gets in the way on the "internets"... For myself, I don't get insulted in person let alone a message board - but that is just me...

 

[BoilerUP]

But it really comes as a surprise to me that the corporate piloting profession can be so splintered so as to allow a radically different pay scale between a global jet (BBJ) and a regional turboprop (King Air) whereby the King Air pilot makes almost triple what the BBJ pilot makes. It seems really wrong to me. Wouldn't the BBJ pilot making $50k have ANYTHING to say about that? And why would he take that job when he could be making triple flying a King Air?

Not all KA jobs make $150k (I'd guess VERY few do), and not all long-range bizjet jobs make $50k (again, I'd guess VERY few do).

As others have said, corporate pay is all over the map - for all locations and all airframes. Unlike collectively-bargained pay at the airlines, corporate pilots typically don't set their compensation structure - their companies do. As an example, the guy flying a King Air could help make his company vastly more profits with his work (hence being highly compensated) vs. the guy driving a BBJ for a cheap-ass HNW private owner. Its also possible that corporate pilots (with respect to aircraft size & compensation) are better negotiators at selling their value to a company than airline pilots.

While "bigger plane & longer range = more $$$" is a general rule in bizav, it isn't a hard and fast metric for pilot compensation.

And sure the BBJ pilot making $50k might have something to say about a King Air pilot making more than him...but hey, he accepted the BBJ job paying $50k in the first place so who is more to blame, the pilot who willingly accepted the terms of employment or the company who offered them?

 

[con-pilot]

Please indicate where I came off as patronizing/stupid. If I offended you guys in any way asking what seems to me to be a fair question, please accept my apologies. But it really comes as a surprise to me that the corporate piloting profession can be so splintered so as to allow a radically different pay scale between a global jet (BBJ) and a regional turboprop (King Air) whereby the King Air pilot makes almost triple what the BBJ pilot makes. It seems really wrong to me. Wouldn't the BBJ pilot making $50k have ANYTHING to say about that? And why would he take that job when he could be making triple flying a King Air? Sorry, but the logic just doesn't add up for me. Again, apologies if I came off the wrong way but I'm really curious as to how this can happen in your field. Thanks for any input. Your "lowly" airline compadre,
73

It seems really wrong to me. Wouldn't the BBJ pilot making $50k have ANYTHING to say about that?

Not really, all he can say is, "I will not work for that little." Then the owner says, 'Fine, I'll hire someone who will."

And trust me on this, there is always a pilot out there that will. Always has been, always will be. There are pilots out there that will fly for free, I know, because when I was a Chief Pilot/Flight Deparpment Mannager for various companies I had some apply for jobs, not only willing to fly for free, but I had two pilots actually inform me that they would pay for their own type ratings. Needless to say I threw all of them out of my office.

And why would he take that job when he could be making triple flying a King Air?

That's easy, the ego of flying a BBJ. We pilots do have rather large egos you know, sometimes it works for us, sometimes against us.

Now, on a personal note, I left the left seat of a 727 to go fly a Sabre 65, for about twice the money. It was a Government 727 at that.

I never looked back.

 

[rice]

Please indicate where I came off as patronizing/stupid. If I offended you guys in any way asking what seems to me to be a fair question, please accept my apologies. But it really comes as a surprise to me that the corporate piloting profession can be so splintered so as to allow (WTF??) a radically different pay scale between a global jet (BBJ) and a regional turboprop (King Air) whereby the King Air pilot makes almost triple what the BBJ pilot makes. It seems really wrong to me. Wouldn't the BBJ pilot making $50k have ANYTHING to say about that? (You really are freakin' kidding, right?) And why would he take that job when he could be making triple flying a King Air? Sorry, but the logic just doesn't add up for me. Again, apologies if I came off the wrong way but I'm really curious as to how this can happen in your field. Thanks for any input. Your "lowly" airline compadre,
73

You really don't get out much, do you??? Don't you have any friends/neighbors that work in a non-union private sector job?

The reality is that as a corporate pilot you get paid at a rate which you can negotiate. Some companies have pre-determined scales in which the fFlt. Dept. personnel fall under. Some companies are privately held and pay whatever the CEO (typical direct report) or HR dept. decide to pay. Some aircraft owners (many actually) are individuals and pay whatever they feel the job is worth.
Again the job pays not necessarily what it should but what you can NEGOTIATE.

As for the disparity between pay and aircraft size. Typically in business aviation, the longer range of the aircraft, the larger the paycheck. Keep in mind that in our world, larger does not usually mean longer range, ie. Boeing's, MD conversions, RJ conversions and the like, more often than not do not have equal range or capability of the larger purpose built business aircraft. Gulfstream, Global, Falcon pilots, often do anything from a short 1hr domestic hop to 10hr (or more) international non-stop.

So why does a King Air guy occasionally make a lot more than a BBJ driver? Well there may be many reasons.
A) The man who writes the check may only want a KA and he likes to take care of his people.
B) The KA guy may be a helluva lot smarter than the BBJ guy when it came to NEGOTIATING his salary.
C) The guy flying the BBJ is likely a retired airline Capt. and is F'ing the business aviation pilot group by undercutting our typical salary scales so he can get by on his reduced PBGC retirement. (Harsh words but it's happening all the time)

By the way, there are many Executive Assistant's (secretary's) in the business world that make a lot more than most pilots, regardless of the size of the plane. Wouldn't surprise me that your CEO's makes more than you do. Why would any airline pilot allow that?????
You could've taken her job instead of flying a plane .

 

[aa73]

Rice, Con-pilot and BoilerUP - THANK YOU. Your explanations are all I was seeking when I asked the questions. Seems like we could have had this discussion on the previous page without all the demeaning assumptions about me.

Thanks for clearing up an often dark corner for us airline types.

73

 

[con-pilot]

Rice, Con-pilot and BoilerUP - THANK YOU. Your explanations are all I was seeking when I asked the questions. Seems like we could have had this discussion on the previous page without all the demeaning assumptions about me.

Thanks for clearing up an often dark corner for us airline types.

73

Well I sincerely hope you will remain an airline pilot for your entire career. I'm very serious about that and it is not meant to taken in any negative connotation what so ever.

However, if your airline career is like 99% of all other airline pilots*, you will find yourself on the street some day and the odds are more than once. If that happens, and it probably will, you will have the opportunity to understand what we have been discussing.

Anyway, good luck to you.




* Unless you are with FedEx or one of the other major cargo airlines, if you are, bloody well good for you!

 

[aa73]

Con-pilot... So far so good! I am in my 11th year at AA. From 2005-2007 I was ONE (1!!!) number from furlough. That's right, they furloughed right up to the guy below me. Talk about luck! Sad thing is that, in my 11th year, I still only have about 800 pilots below me (out of 9000 total.) Glad they have finally started recalling. Overall I should do quite well here, as long as some disaster/merger/who knows what happens - I am supposed to be #11 when I retire. And if I do find myself on the street I will gladly explore my options in the corporate world. I promise I'll be humble and only discuss the way we did it at the airlines twice a day. All kidding aside, thanks for the info.
73