Future plans for the 717 at the new SWA?

[chase]

Between the 80+ 717s, 25 -500s and the possibility of more 717s (TBD I'm sure after we get the dust settled from integrating and optimizing the 717 with the proper city-pairing...18 months or more), the future looks bright for the 717.

1. 100+ airplanes to sprinkle around the system on city-pairings that have historical numbers of lower load factors...better CASM costs.

2. SWA copied the legacy carriers in optimizing their schedule; that has worked extremely well, the same principle will occur with the optimizing of the fleet options. Adding airplanes to both ends of the scale (717 on the low end, -800s on the upper end) will result in higher ROICs...more plane growth.

3. Don't know how profitable the current smaller city pairings (Wichita, Tunica, Branson, etc.) would be without the local incentives. However, if that model can remain in place (we have it for ECP, first one for SWA) then smaller cities are a player. Questions for AAI folks, how many local incentive airports are there and any idea on how long those arrangements are for? Plus, what is the smallest number of flights at any of your airports on a daily basis...2, 3, 4, etc?

4. TX two steps, even CA flights could use the smaller seat capacity options....particularly of use in the early morning flights or late evening flights when loads are usually lighter.

5. True point to point flying will better optimize the 717 vs the more traditional hub and spoke (sorry if I'm mischaracterizing AAI's flying...could very well be something closer to SWAs) on some city pairings particularly starting out.

6. SWA is changing many things about its operations and has over my tenure (11+ yrs) but the synergies of both the 800, AAIa and the reduction in smaller RJ fleets will provide for new opportunities that SWA was looking for an entry point previously but with the confluence of events has now found the most profitable entry into.

Looking forward to flying with the AAI folks and cautiously optimistic that all parties, SWA FOs, AAI CA/FOs all will benefit in the long run....short-term inevitable disruption will occur, forced based changes possibly and other disruptive events no doubt to a few but adding airplanes and growth is a good panacea for correcting temporary inconveniences.

BTW, thanks to Lear for his efforts to keep things are track around here and I too hope all of the "hostages" are brought back quickly...everyone should have a seat at the table; circle the 5th and 20th as you will like those days (if money is important) even more than you do now. Also, if you want a copy of the current SWA benefit package being offered to SWA employees for 2011, PM me and I'll send you the .pdf copy. You may find that an interesting read particularly if you are paying a lot for medical benefits.

 

[ATLplt]

Chase, always the voice of reason. Well said, sir. I agree with your outlook, and it looks bright for ALL of us.

 

[Cruncher]

I agree with Chase. We'll keep the 717s, probably buy all the ones we can get our hands on. Boeing has some, some parked in VCV (may be the same ones). Probable able to pick up another couple dozen. They will be integrated throughout the system on the lower passenger markets / times. There are a fixed # of 717s, so the long term future means they will eventually be replaced. Also they have higher maintenance costs, so that time may be sooner then the 737s have lasted.

IMO, the future of SWA is a small - medium - large aircraft. 717, 737, ? is the future. Self small market feed, core 737 point to point (to a degree) between all large US cities, then a larger more efficient long haul / international market (smaller frequency, but more seats). I'm not one of the kool-aid we are going to get the 787 next Monday guys, but I think if we don't eventually change for that model, we'll fail. It's likely we'll have close to 10,000 pilots in 10 years (hopefully NOT through more acquisitions!!!)

We make serious cash, yet we are not even in the lucrative international markets! It's all a matter of time. It is very likely the junior AAI fos will retire as a 787 (or larger) Captain. Congratulations.

 

[texman]

Ok, I have some time to type here. I hope this makes some of are future swa brothers feel good. What is stated is fact.

1.) The 717 with are point to point system is a big money maker.
2.) The 717 has better operating cost than the EMB-190.
3.) Will help compete agianst ALGT in smaller markets out west.
4.) Ticket prices will drop 50% in ATL when both companies are combined.
5.) SWA brings 5 times to the table in the big picture, this will boost every market that Airtran serves, especially international.
6.) Hawaii is a big money maker, it's around the corner for us.
7.) Airtran stock went up when announcement was made, but so did SWA a little which is a good indication that investors are liking what we are doing.
8.) All the smaller Airtran markets are staying.
9.) SWA is going to make a estimated 1.5 billion next year (hopefully nothing crazy happens.)
10.) The 717 will have 122-125 seats all single class, just like the 737's.
11.) The 717 will be like the -500. So if you guys are worried about the less pay thing it won't happen.
12.) The Airtran acquisition is only a small piece of the puzzle to the next 5 + years.
13.) Headquarters will stay in DAL. They tried to keep one in MCO in the deal.

Some of us pilot's and FA's where randomly selected to go to a senior leadership dinner this month. Every top VP, Chiefs, and Mgt was there. These are some of the things said by GK, RR, and LW. It was a no bull, no koolaid drinking event ( There was drinking though). They are excited to have Airtran as part of the family. They are not thinking 2+ years down the road, but 5-10. They did say for us to lead, and show Airtran culturally what SWA really is and not to get cocky. A question was asked to RR about Hawaii " I heard we can't make money going there''. RR stated ''we can make a lot of money''. ''what about South America?'' RR stated ''we need the -800 for both Hawaii and down south''. A Jr OAK FO asked if Airtran was the growth and GK, said it is the steeping stone and a small part of the puzzle. After the operation is combined we will super exceed 15% ROIC, This will help us grow organically.

Brothers hold tight! We are young pilot group. Lets be a team and a family. We have to take care of each other. This is what they started in 1971 and we have to carry the torch. Is the culture dead? No! You have to ask your self everyday, what are YOU doing to ensure the culture stay's alive.

 

[Clyde Frog]

Really, you think so? I have flown both and disagree with you. Was that sarcasm? I didnt even have to tune my own ILS's when I was on the B717, now thats what I call automation!!

No I misspoke, the 717 is way more automated and the 737 is way more reliable, unlike my typing.

 

[Cruncher]

We are young pilot group.

Tex,

Over 1400 guys on the current SWA list will retire in 10 years (1416 actually). 1825 retire in the 12 years after the age change catches up (14 years from yesterday). I would not say we (SWA) are necessarily a young group.

The AAI is a young group; their retirement numbers are in the teens / dozens for the next decade (& longer). AAI is going to retire about 209 in the same time frame above.

 

[texman]

Tex,

Over 1400 guys on the current SWA list will retire in 10 years (1416 actually). 1825 retire in the 12 years after the age change catches up (14 years from yesterday). I would not say we (SWA) are necessarily a young group.

The AAI is a young group; their retirement numbers are in the teens / dozens for the next decade (& longer). AAI is going to retire about 209 in the same time frame above.

No, your right. What I meant to say is they are a young pilot group, and that will add more young pilots to list. I just want them to value what we have here so that we can take SWA to the next level. Things are going to be good. We just have to take care of each other. The chiefs got out of a week long meeting last week. 3 -700's from virgin blue are at boeing being painted to swa colors. They are ETOPS ready. The trigger hasn't been pulled, but Hawaii is around the corner. I would assume they will be used for proving runs.

 

[Clyde Frog]

If you really think you will get our CBA and get to keep your seniority, you may be disappointed.

I'm happy that you're so proud of your CBA, but...your CBA has an amendable date, a seniority number doesn't. SWA is king of the 737 heap today, wasn't always like that and certainly won't always be. How long have you been in this industry? Might I remind you of the DAL/UAL contracts of 2000/2001? How many pilots did SWA lose to them a decade ago?

There is a reason arbitrators have historically ignored differences in CBA's. You might be disappointed.

 

[Cruncher]

I heard the Virgin Blue were -800s (hence the SL6 Dec 1 timeline).

Rumor, I know.

 

[MILPILOT17]

I'm happy that you're so proud of your CBA, but...your CBA has an amendable date, a seniority number doesn't. SWA is king of the 737 heap today, wasn't always like that and certainly won't always be. How long have you been in this industry? Might I remind you of the DAL/UAL contracts of 2000/2001? How many pilots did SWA lose to them a decade ago?

There is a reason arbitrators have historically ignored differences in CBA's. You might be disappointed.

Hope you don't think that SWA managemet fell off the turnip truck yesterday. You really think they want to kill their perceived "culture" by pissing off a majority of the SWA pilots or any other SWA group for that matter? They have plenty of options before they let some arbitrator(s) roll those dice. Start thinking outside the box and the picture may become more clear.