Future Pilot Pay will be at School Teacher Wages

[GoingHot]

As said before the markets will determine what wages will be.

As it should be. But right now and for the next 3-7 years, the Administration, Congress, Academia and the Media are pushing a brand of Socialism that would make Karl Marx and Captain Dad proud.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

As it should be.

This coming from a guy who's gained from socialized healthcare and wages.

But right now and for the next 3-7 years, the Administration, Congress, Academia and the Media are pushing a brand of Socialism that would make Karl Marx and Captain Dad proud.

Put down Ayn..... before you speak of what you do not know, can you explain our free market system where corporations receive massive amounts of federal funds, proactively (R&D for defense contractors) and bailouts for bankers who lobby govt for relaxed regulations.... Simply put our corporations are socialized in the worse way.... they privatize the profits and use the the govt (tax payer funds) to accept the losses.

You are right in that it is the Admin, Congress, Acadamia and Media.... but you are negating the massive influx of corporate funds into these organizations. That is the problem. The very capitalist paradigm that you gush/lush/blush over is really a rigged system controlled by those who have huge amounts of money.

Your choice to "remove" yourself mentally from the problem is part of the problem. You are part of this "socialist" movement that has been going on since the 1950s and have took off in the 1970's, went full throttle in the 1980s and hasn't stopped.

The real question is.... are we going to be pawns or are we going to be real American citizens. The fact is, those who have money do not want to share access to govt. Sharing access to govt means less control to create favorable laws to keep money. The goal is to keep 305M Americans disconnected from govt and citizenship.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yes, They got high wages in order to keep the unions outs, because the unproductive UAW work rules would destroy their company culture.

That management agreed to.....

Where everyone does everything to help the company and everything is everybody's job.

There is a solid ceiling where the social and cultural rules that apply on the factory floor certainly don't apply to the front office.

Your problem is, everyone doesn't include the exec team. Those clowns are in for them. They show up for their contract (yeah CEO's get contracts too) which rewards them for selfishness and failure. They only care about short term gains, specificallly their own. But you don't want to talk about that...

You expect workers thru their unions to be altruistic to their company all while their CEO rapes it. Simply put, if a well dressed suit rang your doorbell, you'd gushingly help them pack up your belongings and give them the keys to your car to rob you. Not only that you'd justify to your neighbors why it was righteous and how they should accept and assist robbery in their homes.


You accept elitism. Which is older than history itself. Some clown decided that he was better than you, and you accept that. Not sure why, when it is at your own detriment, but that is the mentality of a 21st Century wage slave.

Chiding unions is the house slave scolding the field workers. All while master laughs because he doesn't have to do the nasty dehumanizing work. Why you readily accept the role of wage slave against wage slave is amazing and disgusting.

But H, T & N did not have the union benefits, lifetime medical, pensions funded from current operations, and cola.

Only a tool would chide a fellow American for having a retirement and a healthcare plan. These Americans fairly negotiated these benefits in the free market. Do you have a problem with the free market?

This allowed their companies to remain profitable.

Because the Japanese govt has a national healthplan that doesn't burden their companies. Are you advocating national healthcare?

BTW I have nothing agasint your union raising wages, but if they price themselves out of the market, the non-union air carriers will make out.

Because we have laws written by corporations that make it so.



Sorry an audience was created for your ridiculous comparisons of UAW labor and the RLA. You're toolbox has only three talking points on FI and they are fundamentally limited and severely flawed; 1. Love of flying takes priority over a career in flying. 2. Management is righteous. 3. Unions are bad.

 

[PCL_128]

Excellent posts, Rez!

 

[pilotyip]

so what is the answer?

Excellent posts, Rez!

OK guys, PLC and Rez, you are so far down the road of unions can do no wrong and managmenent can do no right that is difficult to understand where you are coming from. I always thought I was a middle of the road union realist, having been a union member at two airlines. But for you two saying anything that is not 100% anti-management and 100% pro-union is attacked as not deserving the time of day. Unions have tremendous power to destroy, however no one is allowed to have any opinion but yours. So for your best shot asume congress pases the most pro-labour laws ever conceived, going back to FDR days. What would you guys make your airline do? Now remember your goal will be to keep everyone employed at higher eages with more days off without faising fares that would chase people buying tickets to non-union airlines. You know like NWA, UAL, DAL did in the late 90's. Come tell us all what union utopia will be like.

 

[PCL_128]

First, your entire premise is wrong. I won't speak for Rez, but I certainly don't believe that all management are 100% wrong. Some managements do things incredibly right. Although I think they take the "touchy feely" thing a bit far over there, the SWA management team knows how to treat their people. They've always believed that "if you take care of your employees, they'll take care of the customers, and that will take care of the shareholders." That is the proper attitude. Very few managements nowadays follow that philosophy, but some still do.

Now, your second premise is also completely wrong. The idea that unions can "make" their companies do anything, even with "FDR days" labor laws is a complete fantasy. Unions have never had the upper hand. It's always been simply to what degree management has the upper hand. In the end, we are always left to negotiate, and we always have the most to lose in a self help situation.

All I ask for is a level playing field, where the RLA is allowed to function as it was originally intended. There should be pressure on both sides, not just on labor's. Status quo provisions should apply equally. Ridiculous interpretations of job actions need to go away, as the original drafters of the Act never intended for it to applied as the courts have.

That is all that I ask, pilotyip. I don't expect government to give me anything, or for management to roll over. I just want a level playing field.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Trust me, I'm all for high wages for airline pilots. The pilot wages at the top drive the wages paid all the way down to corporate pilots, Part 135 pilots and even CFI's. I'm afraid, however, that that's just not going to happen unless there can be unity in the pilot union ranks. Look, ALPA is disintegrating and losing members, i.e., US Air. So you see, unity is an unlikely reality with the "ME generation" running things, especially the pilot unions. As an example, the Regional pilots have been treated as second class by ALPA leadership and by many of it's members too. Sometimes the fellow union members at the Regionals are even blamed for the lowed wages at the majors. As such, there will always be a division, rather than what is needed, as in Unity. The pilots at the Majors always look at the pilots at the Regionals as suspect replacement pilots. Sorry but with that atmosphere there can be little chance of unity.

So in the end, it is going to be "Supply and Demand" that will most likely need to drive wages up. Until then, this industry is doomed to school teacher wages.

If and when there is a pilot shortage wages will go up. Only then will airline pilots pay escape it's present lows. And when that time comes some type of pilot union must be collectively representing that airline.

If you happen to be working for one of the few majors where pay is still at some level of reasonableness, congratulations because your members must have a degree of Unity. If that unity is lost, you too will join the Regional pilots at school teacher wages.

Good luck! The industry is counting on you to keep it together.

But my question is this: Is pilot unity an oxymoron in the era of the “Me Generation?”

 

[PCL_128]

The "era of the Me Generation" is coming to a close. YOU were a member of it, and Age 65 was its crowning "achievement." Good riddance.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

The "era of the Me Generation" is coming to a close. YOU were a member of it, and Age 65 was its crowning "achievement." Good riddance.

Sorry, but the "Me Generation" is you. Take care. LOL.....

Who is part of Generation Me?Generation Me describes anyone born in the 1970s, 1980s, or 1990s -- in 2006, this means people between the ages of 7 and 36. These are today's young people, those who take it for granted that the self comes first.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

In Nothern WI, starting teacher pay ranges from about $18K-$26K per year.

You do NOT get summers off. It may seem that way to outsiders, but it is not how it works in reality.

cliff
NBO

 

[PCL_128]

Sorry, but the "Me Generation" is you. Take care. LOL.....

Who is part of Generation Me?Generation Me describes anyone born in the 1970s, 1980s, or 1990s -- in 2006, this means people between the ages of 7 and 36. These are today's young people, those who take it for granted that the self comes first.

Keep telling yourself that, gramps. The rest of us see reality.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

The future of all pilot pay will be at school teacher levels.

So, we're getting a raise?
...and benefits?

schweet!!