Future outlook for FedEx & UPS

[WinstonPilot]

I was recently selected for the ANG to fly C-130s. When I return from training and come off active duty status it will be Sept. 2005 and I'm guessing by that time I'll have 2000TT and 400ME(including previous experience). I have been concentrating so hard on getting a guard slot that I have neglected to stay current with what is taking place at FedEx and UPS. I'm interested in finding out what the chances are of getting a job with either one as soon as I return. If so where is a good source information on getting the hiring process started when I return( books, message boards, websites,etc.)?

Thanks

 

[looseca]

At this point, the smart thing for you to do is worry about making it through your AF flight training and not about who will be hiring in three or four years. I'm not trying to slam you, just giving you some perspective. Good luck.

 

[WinstonPilot]

I agree with you 100%, but right now all I can do is wait until I get my class date and ponder about what is in store for me when I return.

 

[active_herk]

I recommend you do a search on this forum, once for "FedEx" and and another for "UPS". You'll probably find about 95% of the information you are looking for right here.

 

[highflying]

winstonpilot

Winston pilot where what unit did you get your slot with? How did you chose this unit and what would it take to be competitive for a guard unit? I am 22 right now getting some flight training and thinking about trying to get a guard slot. What are the chances?? Any info would be great. Congrats on the ANG spot.

 

[UPS Capt]

I'm interested in finding out what the chances are of getting a job with either one as soon as I return

What will the job market be in 3 years and who will be hiring? Who knows?!?

I guess you'll have as much chance as anyone else with your qualifications. 2000tt/400 ME is actually on the low side for UPS. Prior to 9/11, when hiring was good, competitive mins were 4-5000tt with a couple thousand turbine PIC.

I'm not sure they'd even look at you with 2000/400...but, who knows what hiring will be like in a few years.

 

[WinstonPilot]

I realize the whole thing could go to hell in a handbasket( hopefully not), I thought UPS and FedEX were very quick to hire military pilots considering the training they go through is some of the best in the world. With that being the case, shouldn't they be a little lax on the TT requirements?

 

[wings]

WinstonPilot,
Ten years ago when there were not enough cockpits to go around and pilot training was actually tough to get through...they offered us a "graduate & separate" option...meaning that you could graduate from UPT and get out with no active duty service committment. I don't know of anyone who took it because when jobs are scarce you're just not very competitive with those numbers right out of UPT! If you look around on this board and elsewhere, most "military" guys have upwards of 3000 hours with many of those being PIC ME turbine or jet. Pilot training doesn't even count as PIC and Little Rock won't count either as you won't be signing for the plane! As a matter of fact as a Herc guy you won't be signing for the plane for 2-3 years! So I'd think about how to get your ME PIC time up if I were you...

Of course none of us know what will happen 3 years down the line...so maybe you will be competitive by then! Anyway good luck - if you make it through Tweets, maybe I'll see you at UPT!

 

[UPS Capt]

I thought UPS and FedEX were very quick to hire military pilots considering the training they go through is some of the best in the world.

I think FedEx is more military oriented than UPS. UPS hires from all types of aviation backgrounds and we have a very diverse group of pilots.

Unlike years past, when an employer wanted "jet" pilots, they had to go to the military or corporate depts. Now, you'll be competing against Regional pilots who will literally have thousands of quality hours in two man EFIS equipped jets. And, they accumulate time very quickly while flying in high density and congested airports. This looks very attractive to the majors.

From my personal experience....these guys/gals are very sharp aviators!!

 

[WinstonPilot]

Wings

I had no idea the training Little Rock during UPT couldn't be logged as PIC. That changes things drastically, now that I went back and looked at some of the previous posts I see what your talking about. I thought that since I have my civilian certificates and ratings(MEL), I could log some of the training I received as PIC;I guess it doesn't work that way.

The only way I can think of raising my PIC ME time is to work at a 135 op flying DC-3s or light twins. Are you an IP at UPT, if so which base? I think they send most of the guys from our unit to Columbus.

 

[WinstonPilot]

I didn't want to come off as if military pilots were the only sharp pilots in the business. From personal experience I know a former RJ pilot who did most of his training in the late 80s and early 90s and logged 1900 hours of C-172 and C-150 time while trying to get picked up by a regional. When he was picked up in 96 by CC Air I think he had around 2500TT and in 99 he was picked up by Northwest with 4500TT. My point is, even when times are good surely they wouldn't give as much weight to someone with over a third of their time coming from 172s as someone who has been through a structured military training program.

 

[UPS Capt]

My point is, even when times are good surely they wouldn't give as much weight to someone with over a third of their time coming from 172s as someone who has been through a structured military training program.

They might...and don't call me Surely(Shirely)!

Don't kid yourself about hiring military over civilian time or what is better. This argument of military vs civilain backgrounds and hiring practices has been beaten to death on several forums. It's not the background so much as the individual involved. Good and bad pilots come from all sectors of aviation.

Also, it depends on what the other 2/3 of the person's time consist of. In your example, your friend had 2000 hrs of turbine time combined with his general aviation background for a grand total of 4500. You will have around 2000 total time...period. And, your turboprop (C130) time will be up against pure jet time of the RJ drivers.

Listen, you're doing fine. I'm sure you'll eventually get on with a major and probably in the next 5-7 years. It's just not a given, no matter what your background is or the amount of time you have, that some major airline will hire you. One thing I've learned in 20 years of airline flying is that luck and timing play a big part of the overall equation. There are just some things you can't control like the economy and hiring trends.

Good luck.

 

[Capt TedStriker]

Low time Pilots...and the "MAJORS"....

Winston pilot,

Do not be discouraged about the flight time "numbers" to be competitive to get hired... I have found that you will get hired by your attitude, persistance, and motivation before the flight times are taken into account. What I mean by this is that getting hired in a competitive job market means that you must network and have someone on the inside to get your application from the big stack (of 17,000 at UPS) to the small stack (less than 500). After you are in the small stack you must be relentless in you pursuit. Get SEVERAL recommendations from pilots/management from that company that will go to bat for you, get to know who the H.R. folks are...talk to them on the phone... meet them at airinc/obap/wia conferences, talk to other pilots, get the gouge from buds that have been through the process. Finally make it a full time job to get hired... follow-up every lead and keep your application updated at the minimum interval. The bottom line is that the numbers people talk about are "averages"... That means that some lucky b@stard gets in with less than the average - which could be you. This could me hundreds of seniority numbers and we all know what that means in this environment.

I say all of this because I flew C-130's and was called for interviews at NWA, DAL, AMR, and UPS for interviews. I had 2350 total flight time. By the way NWA AMR and UPS use 61.51 for logging flight time PIC so you end up logging half you time as PIC.
Fair or not... that is the way that the game is played... figure out who wants what on their applications and go with it... Everyone is different on PIC.

Good luck.... Life on the "other side" is better than can be imagined... hope to see you here soon,

Bleeding brown.

 

[P3tarbaby]

Winston,
just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. One thing that hasn´t come up in this thread yet is the fact that military guys typically don´t build time as fast as the civilian sector. I am now a reservist but I spent the last 5 years of my active duty time as a TAR (Training and Administration of Reserves) where I was active duty in a reserve squadron. For the last 5 years I have been the high flight time pilot in my squadron and I still only get about 300 hours a year. ANG Hercs may be different, but my point is that it took me 12.5 years on active duty to get where I am now and over 10 to be competive for the airlines. Guys that do training command tours can built time faster but you´re still talking 6-8 years minimum. And with the current job market, competetive mins are even higher. Who know´s what it will be in 3 years.

My recommendation: set your goals and don´t ever lose sight of them. Fly your a** off. NETWORK, NETWORK, NETWORK. In an ANG unit you´ll be flying with guys/gals from all the majors and that will be a HUGE advantage for you when you plunge into the job market. That is how I got my interview with Fedex last month and how I got my interview with Alaska next week.

Good luck.

 

[WinstonPilot]

Thanks for the Advice

I have a good idea of where I stand and how I need to get where I want to be. I sounds very similar to what I just went through to get a guard slot. I spent many hours networking, reading and preparing over a 6 month period in hopes of just getting one chance to interview(one for one).

During the interview one of the board members told me I could expect to stay very busy just "guard bumming". He said it was realistic to expect 600-800 hours a year if I wanted to work that much.

 

[46Driver]

Just curious to know if UPS counts helo time (I understand that FedEx does not). I know I have to meet the minimum multi-engine jet PIC requirements but do they count rotary wing time in the total time? Thanks.

 

[BrownTailGuy]

They used all of my helo time. I converted it to Part 61 time. It helped me. Of course the fixed wing time is a necessity but it was nice using those extra 1500 hours.

Don't sell yourself short. Include everything you can. And find someone at the company (preferably a management type and not necessarily a pilot type) to get friendly with.

Also get a line pilot or 20 to write recommendations for you. Walking resumes in to HR isn't what it used to be, but have you're buddies pester the HR folks once a month. Make sure your name is on their minds when it comes time to start sending out Flight Time Summary Sheets. If you get one of these, you are on the right path @ UPS.

Good Luck.

p.s. Hey Striker don't I know you? Peace...

 

[46Driver]

What is the minimum for UPS? 1000 PIC Jet or 1500? And I'm afraid to ask what the competitive mins are..... Thanks