Future of Jumpseat

[flyboy]

Since 911, the jumpseat has been reserved only for a pilot that is employed with that airline or its express carriers (my understanding). I know that just about any airline will accept another's pilots and put them in the back. I would imagine that this becomes a giant problem for commuting pilots and sold out flights. Is there any legislation in the works with the unions to get things back the way they were? It seems like this issue has just died.

 

[acaTerry]

The problem is that too many idiots out there, who know NOTHING about airline safety, think the JS is a security risk. Or on the other hand, those who don't commute just don't give a darn.
Let's see, on 9-11-01 four airplanes were hijacked by TICKETED PASSENGERS. What better way to save the world than by taking away the jumpseat from pilots.

 

[norskman2]

What p*sses me off, is that what could be better for security than to have an additional uniformed pilot, even if from another airline, in the cockpit, who could help prevent cockpit intrusions?

"Government intelligence" is a contradiction.....

 

[flying4food]

The only problem I've ever had jumpseating was with united!! Their silly policy about only allowing one off line jumpseater. It appears this varies from Capt to Capt!! Those that commute those that don't! Those that commute will take as many as they can. Those that don't commute will only take one.

Well, it appears those united guys that commute will have it a little harder.

Horizon is changing their jumpseat policy. The new policy there will be whatever the jumpseaters company policy is, will reflect how many from that company will take!!

So when the 3 united commuters show up trying to get on a flight, only one will get on!! After all, that is uniteds policy!! You hate to see guy's get screwed, but fair is fair!! I'm pushing my company to do the same. When enough of those united guys get bumped like some of us have, then they will go in and push their management to change the policy.

In talking with a UAL agent at PDX last week, he told me it's not their computer system, as some have said!! They can list jumpseaters under a number of non-rev codes, so long as the flight isn't over sold, they can list that ACM against a seat!!

I'm hoping more will follow Horizon's lead and change their policy. Once enough stranded united pilots complain, and put pressure on their peers, will thing's change!!

 

[norskman2]

Isn't American also restrictive about taking jumpseaters?

 

[Shortapp]

We are in the process of getting offline pilots back in the jumpseat. The CASS system is in the procees of being developed. It is a system that electronically verifys your identity. It has been approved be the FAA and TSA and the big airlines are working on the logistics of it all. I see us all back in the cockpit with-in a year or two.

 

[gslope2004]

Who Else???maybe??

Would this restore the J/S to off line dispatchers as well. Though our numbers are very low in comparison to pilots, there are alot of us that also commute to work. It would sure help us out in our quest to get to work on another company flight as before.

Thanks for remembering us, the grounded airmen...

 

[lurker]

The only problem I've ever had jumpseating was with united!! Their silly policy about only allowing one off line jumpseater. It appears this varies from Capt to Capt!! Those that commute those that don't! Those that commute will take as many as they can. Those that don't commute will only take one.

I've got to stick up for United here...

I live in the Denver area and jumpseat on United quite often. With a couple of very rare exceptions, they have all been great to me. It seems to me that pre 9/11, there was some arrogance. Since then however, it's been my experience that the pilot group as a whole has gotten a little more humble. I used to fly for a United Express carrier, and had the privelege of sitting up front a few times, and like I said, I was always treated very well.

As far as only one jumpseater, I know for sure that's true for American, Delta, and I'm pretty sure also for Northwest, Continental, etc. And as for variation between captain, every now and then, there will be one willing to stick out his/her neck and allow more. Don't count on it though. And by the way, they will allow as many jumpseaters as there are jumpseats, i.e. airbus, 747, 777, 767 = 2 jumpseats, everything else = 1.

My experience has also been the they will do their best to put you in first/business, which is more than I can say for AA. I believe it's company policy to put all jumpseaters/nonrevs in coach.

I know that I have been treated very well.

 

[767200]

It's so stupid that a few years ago a Fedex jumpseater tried to kill everyone on board. Nobody did anything. .
After 9-11 ticketed pax hijacked four airplanes and now we have a problem with airline pilots......

 

[great cornholio]

I heard that the jumpseat will be open within 6 months......but I heard that a year and half ago. Hopefully it comes around soon cause it sucks watchin the plane pull off the gate with an empty jumpseat just cause it was full in the back.

 

[Q200_FO]

Horizon is changing their jumpseat policy. The new policy there will be whatever the jumpseaters company policy is, will reflect how many from that company will take!!

Where did you hear this?? I heard nothing from management reflecting this. We have always taken multiple jumpseaters. As long as we have an agreement with your company and if there's a seat in the back you're welcome. That's straight out of the FOM and I haven't gotten any blue pages (revisions) saying otherwise.

 

[mckpickle]

We are in the process of getting offline pilots back in the jumpseat. The CASS system is in the procees of being developed. It is a system that electronically verifys your identity. It has been approved be the FAA and TSA and the big airlines are working on the logistics of it all. I see us all back in the cockpit with-in a year or two.

This would be great if the TSA will actually turn it on.....however we are still trying to fugure out who's gonna pay for it. The CASS servers run through ARINC and they want some bling bling.

The other problem is the CASS system is only going to be availible to ATA members at first. So COEX will not be able to participate even though we are twice the size of some that will.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Good Idea!

Horizon is changing their jumpseat policy. The new policy there will be whatever the jumpseaters company policy is, will reflect how many from that company will take!!

I have recommended this to our jump seat ALPA rep and he is looking into it. It is only fair to reciprocate in the same fashion that we are treated. I am sick of trying to get on an AA flight and turned away with a 50% load factor only to have 5 of them in the back of our aircraft. The jumpseat should never be used as a tool, but in this case, it may just open up some of these rediculous rules in place to include our own Delta. We at ASA carry unlimited JS's, and we get used alot by those same companies that only allow one or none (cargo). OK, I am done now.

 

[Sniper@YourFeet]

Don't get mad at the cargo guys. All the major ones that go anywhere have an unlimited JS policy. It is not the fault of the pilots that their aircraft are not equiped with the required equipment to ensure that JS'rs don't have access to the flightdeck (once off-line pilots have access to the cockpit again, cargo will be able to reciprocate).

A reciprocal JS agreement is very 'an eye for an eye'. Although perhaps fair, I would strive for a higher standard, that of 'treat others the way you would like to be treated.' If you would like unlimited JS's, than you should lead by example.

I admit it is frustrating to hear pilots from certain carriers say that the JS is something they must win in negotiations, and they are unwilling to scarafice something of their own for the benefit of others - but I still maintain that the high road is the right road to take.

Think of it this way: regionals have industry leading JS policy. "It's about time mainline raised the bar to meet the regionals!"

You won't hear that one on this board very often.

 

[Caveman]

Tim47SIP posted:

"I have recommended this to our jump seat ALPA rep and he is looking into it. It is only fair to reciprocate in the same fashion that we are treated. I am sick of trying to get on an AA flight and turned away with a 50% load factor only to have 5 of them in the back of our aircraft. The jumpseat should never be used as a tool, but in this case, it may just open up some of these rediculous rules in place to include our own Delta. We at ASA carry unlimited JS's, and we get used alot by those same companies that only allow one or none (cargo). OK, I am done now."

Stand by for heavy seas brother. I've brought up exact equal reciprocity a couple of times particularly when it comes to the freight guys. Every time I did I was called everything but a child of god. I agree with you but the majority of the folks on this board sure don't. Wait and see......

 

[DirkkDiggler]

Tim47,

It's attitudes such as yours that cause problems in the first place. I used to fly for a 135 cargo operator that would let any 121 airline crew jumpseat with us regardless of whether they offered a reciprocal aggreement. In the long run this ended up opening a lot of reciprocal aggrements once word got out to each company's jump seat coordinator about how accomodating our company was with jumpseaters. If you go around saying, "they don't give us what we want so we won't give them what they want," all you do is foster bad relations between your company and everyone else. If you take the higher road and let everyone ride regardless of how they treat you, perhaps you will end up as a pioneer opening up other companies agreements to be as accomodating as yours. After all, that is the ultimate goal isn't it? I think they tought us all in kindergarden to treat people as we would like them to treat us. Takes time but it's a much better policy for you and everyone else in the end.

 

[gslope2004]

Jumpseat policy education.

Once the Jumpseat restrictions have been raised to what ever the new rules are, I sure hope the airlines educate all the Gate agents on who is allowed to J/S, namely that dispatchers are permitted to ACM in the cockpit just as Pilots are.

Many times I have been stopped by gates agents that said I was not allowed to J/S which makes for a frustrating situation when your trying to humble your way to the crew for permission.

Of course the priority system should be spelled out as well, It is understandable that a company pilot going to work should have a higher priority than someone just heading home. Then the senority date etc......Then I feel it should be first come first served for non company employees, pilot or dispatcher alike, but we will see what shakes out, i'll be glad for anything at this point.

As a dispatcher, I am always appreciative of this prevledge, I always ask to speak to the Head F/A and both Crew members to request a ride, Assuming I get past the Gate keepers and always always volunteer to help in any way I can, thanking them when I get to where I'm going!!!

 

[flying4food]

Where did you hear this?? I heard nothing from management reflecting this. We have always taken multiple jumpseaters. As long as we have an agreement with your company and if there's a seat in the back you're welcome. That's straight out of the FOM and I haven't gotten any blue pages (revisions) saying otherwise.

I never reveal a source, you should see it within a month or so!!!!

 

[Scube3]

I was jumpseating from Louisville one morning with NW, and there were at least three other pilots from UPS in that flight. I also heard that NW doesn't have any JS restrictions.

I heard the same about Continental and US airways but I am not sure.

I am also sure that AA and DL and UA only accept pilots as Jumpseats are on the airplane.

The rest of the other companies take multiple JS's.

Why shouldn't they??

Scube

 

[Caveman]

"It's attitudes such as yours that cause problems in the first place."

Well that didn't take long.

 

[mckpickle]

Continental will take as many Jumpseaters as they have jumpseats. So some 737's have 2 JS then they take 2. Most only take on. Continental Express (Express Jet) will take as many jumpseaters as we have room for. Pilots AND dispatchers from any FAR 121 airline. This just changed due to the kindness of our management.

On the Cargo note.........Fedex has had cockpit door installed for some time yet still does not allow offline Jumpseaters.

And SDF continues to be a problem for guys trying to JS into or out of UPS's hub.

 

[Q200_FO]

I never reveal a source, you should see it within a month or so!!!!

Whatever.

 

[Twotter76]

Just for clarification Northwest will take two per aircraft regardless of how many jumpseats there physically are on the airplane. On Airlink flights I believe they are unlimited (XJ and 9E). A quick thanks to all the NW and XJ guys who have been getting me to beautiful GFK lately - you are always welcome to cram yourself into the back of my RJ.

 

[Thedude]

Actually NWA will take multipule offline jumpseaters, and yes that means more than two. For some reason they will only take two NWA jumpseaters.

 

[NEDude]

For some reason they will only take two NWA jumpseaters.

Perhaps a limited attempt to discourage commuting among their own pilots?