Fun RJ article

[Av8tor]

Av8tor,

Your airline will eventually have roomier A320's/19's, but will still have those 85 or so CRJs---and that will become a factor when Southwest, Airtran, Jetblue, and Midatlantic start flying and competing with 737s and EMB-190s on most of your routes--at IAD, DCA, and BWI. It will be tought to make a profit with 50 seats available and $59 one way fares South or North from IAD. Good luck though.

Bye Bye--General Lee [/B]

General,

It will be tough to make money with all the RJ's that we have but that's the hand we have been given, so we are going to do the best we can. When Independence start's to show a profit you can bet on seeing more 319's and getting rid of most of the RJ's. http://flyi.com

 

[MedFlyer]

Medflyer is convinced that the Majors will become extinct. He is probably shorting the stock.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

I expect a few of the majors (3-4) will survive...there's still a need for a few full-network carriers.

However, Palerider's attitude toward customers is a problem. If every employee at DL (or ASA in his case) has that attitude, DL will not survive. The major airlines have to stop treating customers like they are the enemy...it's a doomed strategy.

The funny thing General is that you and I agree with each other on this issue. RJ's have their place, but they are being used to excess. DL needs a better 100 seater, but even if the DL pilots give concessions (unlikely), DL won't be able to afford them for quite a while.

P.S. I don't own any airline stocks....I like to make money which is pretty tough to do with most airline stocks.

 

[DenverDude2002]

What is with all these whiners about the RJ's. Do they forget the day when Metros and Beech 99s roamed the commuter market? My dad did a lot of flying in the 70s/80s for business and remembers those all tooo well.

I'm 5'9 and i fit fine in the RJ's. I fly enough to be considered a frequent flyer and I have NO complaints about the RJ's. Do they have room for my laptop in the cabin? yes. Do they have windows? yes. are they pretty quiet? yes. I have no complaints, I'd fly all RJ's if I had to. Theyre nice planes. and so what if they dont have IFE? Are people for getting about the 200+ American "Super 80s" that lack IFE? How hard is it to bring a cd player and a good book with you?

People these days need to take a chill pill and be glad they even get to fly in a plane, let alone in a nice jet.

 

[Palerider957]

medflyer:

Give me a break! I hardly see pax as the enemy, but at SOME point reality has to set in. On my last leg from MGM we had a whopping 17 pax. The CR7 probably about breaks even on that leg--you would put a 717, or 738 on that route??

What I said before still stands, people go to the internet and buy the cheapest ticket they can get. If this cheap ticket is on a low volume route--RJ's will be the only thing suitable--get it???

This argument has been hashed out soooooo many times, I hate to revisit it, but a 738 and the CR7 have about the same comfort level. (ridden on the Delta Shuttle planes lately--talk about a cattle car).

The size of the airplane has little to do with customer service. All of the research ASA has done confirms this (among our pax). They want completion, on-time, and convenience--in a well run operation (not ASA), all of these things can be accomplised by an RJ.

Finally, I have bent over backwards for customers at times when the airline has failed them--I don't need some SFB rookie telling me about customer service.

 

[AAsRedHeadedbro]

Just a quick point: If a flight is going to be full (like so many are these days), I'd rather sit in an RJ. Why?

Because in the RJ I am not going to be forced to sit in the dreaded middle seat in the back of a 150-passenger airplane. You always get either a window or an aisle (or both) in an RJ. There is no worse place to be than stuck in a middle seat for a couple of hours while both your seatmates take both armrests. The pax in front of you has his seat reclined right into your face. The guy on the aisle rolls his eyes when you need to get up to use the lav. The guy at the window slams his shade shut the second he sits down and does not open it until after the plane lands (is he afraid of sunlight - a vampire maybe.)

I'm not going to have to walk up and down the aisle trying to find a space for my rollerbag in the crammed overhead bins while the "friendly" FA's are on the PA telling everyone that they have to sit down so we can push (on the RJ it'll be dropped off at the door and waiting for me when I get off - no fuss, no muss).

In the Embraer, at least, the lav is as big as any mainliner lav since it spans the entire width of the cabin. So what's the complaint about the lav? On another note, because the airplane is much smaller, the FA usually has his or her service done quickly. Therefore the aisle isn't blocked for a half-hour or more by the galley cart, totally preventing any passenger movement to or from the lavs, as happens frequently on the larger mainline jets.

I agree that if the flight is somewhat less than full, I'd rather ride on a full size jet. No RJ can match first class on a mainline jet, especially a widebody. But how many pax ever ride in first class, anyway? First class is taken by the same relatively small demographic – a few businessmen or women cashing in some miles. The rest of the businessmen and women who were not lucky enough to snag one of the few first class seats get to sit in the back of the bus like the rest of us. Oh, but wait! They DO get one more inch of seat pitch! Woo hoo!

 

[General Lee]

AAredheadedbro,

That is always the same excuse every RJ pilot states. They don't want to sit in the middle seat. Well, the business traveller wants an upgrade to first class---where he will have no middle seat (unless on widebody) and the supersized joe next to him won't overflow into his seat. The RJs are really not comfortable, but they are tolerable for a certain amount of time. Your EMB-145 has one seat on one side---which is good, but the CRJ has two seats on each side--increasing the odds of a chunky monkey sitting next to you. Long flights next to someone like that, not being able to get up and get away from the stench due to the fact that the stew is in the tight aisle--it makes the higher fare passengers (business guys) sick.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NoName]

Just a quick point: If a flight is going to be full (like so many are these days), I'd rather sit in an RJ. Why?

Because in the RJ I am not going to be forced to sit in the dreaded middle seat in the back of a 150-passenger airplane. You always get either a window or an aisle (or both) in an RJ. There is no worse place to be than stuck in a middle seat for a couple of hours while both your seatmates take both armrests. The pax in front of you has his seat reclined right into your face. The guy on the aisle rolls his eyes when you need to get up to use the lav. The guy at the window slams his shade shut the second he sits down and does not open it until after the plane lands (is he afraid of sunlight - a vampire maybe.)

I'm not going to have to walk up and down the aisle trying to find a space for my rollerbag in the crammed overhead bins while the "friendly" FA's are on the PA telling everyone that they have to sit down so we can push (on the RJ it'll be dropped off at the door and waiting for me when I get off - no fuss, no muss).

In the Embraer, at least, the lav is as big as any mainliner lav since it spans the entire width of the cabin. So what's the complaint about the lav? On another note, because the airplane is much smaller, the FA usually has his or her service done quickly. Therefore the aisle isn't blocked for a half-hour or more by the galley cart, totally preventing any passenger movement to or from the lavs, as happens frequently on the larger mainline jets.

I agree that if the flight is somewhat less than full, I'd rather ride on a full size jet. No RJ can match first class on a mainline jet, especially a widebody. But how many pax ever ride in first class, anyway? First class is taken by the same relatively small demographic – a few businessmen or women cashing in some miles. The rest of the businessmen and women who were not lucky enough to snag one of the few first class seats get to sit in the back of the bus like the rest of us. Oh, but wait! They DO get one more inch of seat pitch! Woo hoo!

exactly! i wish the media would spend a little more time on the positives instead of all the negative press. you also hear nothing about the avionics packages that these aircraft have. they also dont hear anything about how new the fleets are instead of teh 1970's DC9s NWA is still flying around.

 

[AAsRedHeadedbro]

Sorry. I have to disagree with you. If I am facing a three hour flight in a full airplane in coach class, I'd rather fly on the RJ for the reasons stated above. If the flight is somewhat less than full, I'd rather fly on the mainliner. Coach class in a full mainliner is total he11 as far as I'm concerned.

As far as the business traveler, come on. What percentages of business travelers on any given flight actually get a first class seat? It's VERY low. The rest of the unlucky ones (almost all of them) get cattle class. They’re told “I’m sorry, first class is full. Here’s your seat, 38B (right in the middle). Don’t forget your bistro meal.”

BTW, I suppose you think that when and if I end up flying a mainline size airplane I'll suddenly change my tune and decide that being crammed into the back of a FULL mainliner is somehow not so bad? Why even bring up this RJ pilot vs. mainline pilot mentality? Within the context of this discussion it does not matter.

 

[AAsRedHeadedbro]

I will concede that General Lee's widebody 767 will trump an RJ in ANY class. I'd rather be in his 767 in coach than in an RJ cabin. Absolutely.

 

[MedFlyer]

medflyer:

Give me a break! I hardly see pax as the enemy, but at SOME point reality has to set in. On my last leg from MGM we had a whopping 17 pax. The CR7 probably about breaks even on that leg--you would put a 717, or 738 on that route??

What I said before still stands, people go to the internet and buy the cheapest ticket they can get. If this cheap ticket is on a low volume route--RJ's will be the only thing suitable--get it???

I agree. If its a low volume route, then it goes to the RJ. However, do you consider DCA-DFW to be a low volume route? How about DFW-JFK? DCA-MCO? In all three cases, there are direct competitors that fly full-sized planes while DL flies an RJ. Who do you think gets the lion's share of the higher yielding business travelers?

Now I could argue that since DL pulled mainline from MGM, they've driven a lot of customers away...hence the poor loads on your flight. Once DL was gone and customers were left with ASA, instead of putting up with the poor service and high fares, they just got in their cars and drove to BHM or ATL and flew a mainline plane whether it be DL or FL or WN. I won't push that argument though.

This argument has been hashed out soooooo many times, I hate to revisit it, but a 738 and the CR7 have about the same comfort level. (ridden on the Delta Shuttle planes lately--talk about a cattle car).

I disagree. The 738's have more legroom, more headroom, more overhead bin space, IFE (if that's important to you), a chance to upgrade (on the non-Shuttle planes) plus if you are in First on a long flight, you get a meal. I doubt you would find many business travelers that agree with you.

The size of the airplane has little to do with customer service. All of the research ASA has done confirms this (among our pax). They want completion, on-time, and convenience--in a well run operation (not ASA), all of these things can be accomplised by an RJ.

The problem with ASA's research is that the surveys give too much wait to travelers who only fly once a year. Let's have ASA survey a bunch of real frequent flyers (people who face flying in RJ's on a weekly basis) and see what they have to say. ASA won't do that kind of research and there's a reason why. I'm sure Grandma who only flies once a year doesn't care what kind of plane she is on, but business travelers do.

 

[Sandstorm]

Here is another article about rjs that was in the usa today yesterday. i was surprised to see that the article refered to it as the "barbie jet." i always thought that was just a nickname our senior 146 guys gave to the rjs. http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2004-02-17-jet_x.htm

 

[CRJ puppy]

I don't mind riding on the CRJ for 2 hrs or less and in fact prefer it to mainline coach for all the previously stated reasons (unless I get 3 seats to myself in mainline coach....). However I do prefer the ability to get first class on mainline.

But here is my biggest beef...

The service! Delta service, mainline or connection, stinks! I think 2 hrs in an RJ (let alone a full mainline coach) could be improved immensely with better service and ammenities. For example: flew Xjet (ERJ -145) from CLE to DFW the other day...full breakfast service identical to Delta first class breakfast on 2+/- hr. flights! Now there's an example of taking care of the pax and making the almost 2.5 hr flight in an RJ more tolerable!

Why the heck can't Delta mainline or Connection provide that level of service? Isn't Delta supposed to be a "full service" airline??? Service can go a long way to make a longer flight in ANY full airplane much more tolerable. I'm not sure that some of the airlines get it...they do forget about the customer!

I could go on and on but won't. You get my point.

 

[wms]

The size of the airplane has little to do with customer service. All of the research ASA has done confirms this (among our pax). They want completion, on-time, and convenience--in a well run operation (not ASA), all of these things can be accomplised by an RJ.

Remember this is the same company whose "research" showed passengers prefered walking across noisy, dangerous ramps dodging baggage carts in the rain over jet ways.

The problem with ASA's research is that the surveys give too much wait to travelers who only fly once a year. Let's have ASA survey a bunch of real frequent flyers (people who face flying in RJ's on a weekly basis) and see what they have to say.

I believe there was a recent survey of medallion level travellers. The question is whether they look at the results honestly, or just use the fact that they did a survey in their advertising.

As mentioned, the issue is service. Providing good meaningful service such as some kind of meal on a long flight is an investment if it keeps passengers coming back

 

[Palerider957]

CRJ Puppy:

I agree service is important--unfortunately it costs money. I think genuine customer service (as in really serving the customer) not just paying lip service to the idea, is a revolutionary idea at the regionals and will take some time to be internalized.

Prior to being bought by Delta, ASA had about the poorest service in the industry. Brasilias with little or no airconditioning (Sweaty faces, going places!), outright bait and switch (putting passengers on BUSSES to their final destination, complete with an FA to hand out drinks, absurd schedules that couldn't possibly be completed on time-- You name it. Now we are on the national spot light, both from DAL and the media (a good thing to be sure).

I recently rode the jumpseat from DEN to ATL, in speaking with the crew, the meals for sale seems to be doing well. Perhpaps that will drift down to the regionals. It would probably be a positive thing (although the FA's will fight it tooth and nail).
Hell, we just got our liquor kits back! Until recently you couldn't get a hard drink on the CR7....talk about really pis.ssing off the frequent flier.

I guess my main point is that the business traveler wants SERVICE and comfort, but they don't seem willing to PAY for it. The days of $1200 walk-up fares are probably over. With those fares DAL could probably operate a larger aircraft with many open seats, at the $300-$400 per ticket, I guess they can't.......as I said before, people voted for what kind of airlines they want with their pocket books.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

medflyer,
i don't know where you get your information but as far as MGM goes, there is not one single ATR flight that i have done where it has not been COMPLETELY full. Don't know about the rj trips.