full unrestricted ATPL??

[Porch]

Does anyone know if a full unrestricted ATPL with your current A320 Family type rating endorsed on it, is this:

A320 SIC PRIVILEGES ONLY (this is what's on my certificate)

The airline I applied for asks if I have this and I don't know if this is what they want, or do I need the actual capt. type. I'm a 320 FO.

Cheers,
Porch

I apologize for my ignorance in advance. Applying for international employment is not something I am accustom to.

 

[sqwkvfr]

You need the actual captain type.

Most foreign pilots have never heard of an SIC type.

 

[dojetdriver]

Besides having the PIC type, if you are applying for foreign contract gigs I heard that certain places won't accept the type if it has ANY restrictions on it.

Such as Circle-VMC only

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Besides having the PIC type, if you are applying for foreign contract gigs I heard that certain places won't accept the type if it has ANY restrictions on it.

Such as Circle-VMC only

My CL-65 type has such restriction and it wasn't an issue.

The airline I applied for asks if I have this and I don't know if this is what they want, or do I need the actual capt. type. I'm a 320 FO.

First: The SIC type is something that we use here in the US, there is no such thing for most ICAO subscriber nations, all pilots that work here in Japan, for example have a command type rating and they get additional training as F/O's after the certification process. What that means is that they do not recognize an SIC type. Also a full ATPL is required because as you know, you can actually obtain an ATP licence only for the A/C that you are getting type in and it is restricted to only such A/C, they do not recognize this as well

 

[sluggo]

Looks like your @^&*%$ Porch

 

[dojetdriver]

My CL-65 type has such restriction and it wasn't an issue.

Cool for you. More then one guy I know looking at a 320 job in India was told the restriction is a showstopper.

Besides, all the JCAB wants is a command type rating on a two person commercial jet, do they not?

 

[Porch]

Cool for you. More then one guy I know looking at a 320 job in India was told the restriction is a showstopper.

Besides, all the JCAB wants is a command type rating on a two person commercial jet, do they not?

That's what I understand, but it has to be a narrow body. RJ's and EMB's won't cut it.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

That's what I understand, but it has to be a narrow body. RJ's and EMB's won't cut it.

Depends, not for a DEC but for an F/O position is does qualify you. Remember that the contract market is getting pretty swamped with applicants from the US right now, so the minimums tend to go up accordantly

 

[BLing]

ANY restriction will hold you back 99.9% of the time overseas. SIC and Circling restrictions dont exist in JAR land or in the land of wanting to be JAR (everybody but the US) . Such garbage only exists within the FAA. The problem lies within the authorty who will issue you a validation based on your FAA certificate, not so much with the airline itself.

 

[Adobo Pilot]

My type says "pilot-in-command limitations for CL-65"... is that even a limitation?

 

[gromgutten]

Actually, most countries issue type ratings for your particular seat, and it was ICAO pressure that forced the FAA to do the same. The entire JAA system has a P1/P2 specification. As do most of the ICAO countries. The difference in the US is that you can just walk up and pay for a PIC type as long as you have the money.
Most places you go as an expat will question, and quite possibly disqualify you if you have a VMC CIRC ONLY on your ATP. Mostly because they don't know what it means.
An SIC rating is only good if you are applying as an FO.

 

[flyboyike]

First: The SIC type is something that we use here in the US, there is no such thing for most ICAO subscriber nations.

Which is odd, considering that the FAA came up with the SIC type specifically to comply with ICAO policy on the matter.

 

[rod farva]

Besides having the PIC type, if you are applying for foreign contract gigs I heard that certain places won't accept the type if it has ANY restrictions on it.

Such as Circle-VMC only

Isn't a circle a visual maneuver? How do they figure that one. Serious question...no hostility.

 

[BLing]

Isn't a circle a visual maneuver? How do they figure that one. Serious question...no hostility.

Yes a circling approach is a visual maneuver. However, If you are doing a circling approach at circling minimums, you are not in VMC conditons...

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Which is odd, considering that the FAA came up with the SIC type specifically to comply with ICAO policy on the matter.

What is odd is the FAA inventing an SIC type to comply with it.

 

[dojetdriver]

Isn't a circle a visual maneuver? How do they figure that one. Serious question...no hostility.

Although the maneuver is visual, some but not ALL airlines are not approved to execute it unless the wx is VFR. It's not trained in the sim as such, so it will carry the restriction;

"(Aircraft type) CIRC. APCH. - VMC ONLY

Now if your airline trains to circling at less then VMC criteria, then you would not have the restriction.

I'm just going on your profile, so I don't know if you are pure mil or not so I don't know if you guys have different rules than most airlines.

The first airline I was at, we trained to circle at the circling mins on the plate intially. Later, the airline was no longer certified to train or operate at circling mins. So the type rating didn't get changed, but per the FOM we were not allowed to execute unless it was VFR.

The current airline I'm at, we don't train to circle unless it is at VFR mins, so the type rating carrys the restriction. It's not unccomon.

 

[rod farva]

Although the maneuver is visual, some but not ALL airlines are not approved to execute it unless the wx is VFR. It's not trained in the sim as such, so it will carry the restriction;

"(Aircraft type) CIRC. APCH. - VMC ONLY

Now if your airline trains to circling at less then VMC criteria, then you would not have the restriction.

I'm just going on your profile, so I don't know if you are pure mil or not so I don't know if you guys have different rules than most airlines.

The first airline I was at, we trained to circle at the circling mins on the plate intially. Later, the airline was no longer certified to train or operate at circling mins. So the type rating didn't get changed, but per the FOM we were not allowed to execute unless it was VFR.

The current airline I'm at, we don't train to circle unless it is at VFR mins, so the type rating carrys the restriction. It's not unccomon.

Interesting. Yeah, the AF has us circle at the circling mins. Thanks for the info.

 

[Shrek]

How much would it cost to get the circling restriction lifted from your type rating?

 

[Porch]

How much would it cost to get the circling restriction lifted from your type rating?

$8.5K at CAE, gotta do the entire program otherwise its not legit.

 

[Shrek]

$8.5K at CAE, gotta do the entire program otherwise its not legit.

That's funny since CaE has quoted $600 for me.

That is for the PIC A320 type conversion........you may have to do the entire course if you have SIC type with the same limitation.

 

[dojetdriver]

That's funny since CaE has quoted $600 for me.

That is for the PIC A320 type conversion........you may have to do the entire course if you have SIC type with the same limitation.

That's along with what I thought as well. If you have the PIC type all you have to do is demonstrate a circle maneuver with an APD/DE and he could get the restriction lifted off your cert.

 

[grillinmike]

What really bothers me is the Chinese. They don't want a circling restriction on any ATPL. So does that mean they are wanting their pilots to do a circling approach in a B747 at minimums just to get their precious fu@&ing airplane on the ground? Some arrogant prick chief pilot over there wanted me to get my circling approach VMC only restriction taken off of my certificate before he would hire me. WTF OVER!!!

 

[Shrek]

What really bothers me is the Chinese. They don't want a circling restriction on any ATPL. So does that mean they are wanting their pilots to do a circling approach in a B747 at minimums just to get their precious fu@&ing airplane on the ground? Some arrogant prick chief pilot over there wanted me to get my circling approach VMC only restriction taken off of my certificate before he would hire me. WTF OVER!!!

Welcome to the "rest" of the world. Call it hazard pay

 

[Shrek]

That's along with what I thought as well. If you have the PIC type all you have to do is demonstrate a circle maneuver with an APD/DE and he could get the restriction lifted off your cert.

True statement :beer:

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Some arrogant prick chief pilot over there wanted me to get my circling approach VMC only restriction taken off of my certificate before he would hire me. WTF OVER!!!

Some folks here in the States want you to get a 737 type before they hire you, go figure. And besides, it is not the CP requiring the restriction to be removed it is their CAA

 

[dojetdriver]

What really bothers me is the Chinese. They don't want a circling restriction on any ATPL. So does that mean they are wanting their pilots to do a circling approach in a B747 at minimums just to get their precious fu@&ing airplane on the ground? Some arrogant prick chief pilot over there wanted me to get my circling approach VMC only restriction taken off of my certificate before he would hire me. WTF OVER!!!

From what I've heard from friends who are going through the grief of dealing with that issue is this; Like I said, it's just what I heard so take it for what it's worth.

But the Chinese (and others) don't like a restriction of any kind on a certificate. However, their aviation governing agency DOESN'T even allow circling approaches to be done.