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[MsFan]

What I am ashamed of is that initial training pay remains at $2k a month. We should have spent a little money for those guys.


A captain in my systems class told me he made $2000 a month too when he was in initial training . . . 23 years ago! Anybody else think the cost of living has increased a little over the last 23 years? I know, it's only for a couple months, but $2000 is barely a mortgage payment these days.

(Hoping I'm not sounding like a whiney beeotch).

 

[Ninerfan]

New Cornerstone Issues for 2010

So..let me get this right...according to this thread our next cornerstone issues need to be:

1) S/O Flex Retro Pay
2) Training Pay
3) Anything that UPS got and we didn't
4) A change to the IRS code that allows tax free commuting

Ok, got it.

 

[Purpled]

Another thought concerning the retro pay/bonus. In my eyes, the retro pay is to compensate for wages lost due to not having a contract in place for the last 2+ years. That being the case, shouldn't someone who has been in a seat the entire time get more than someone who just upgraded in the last few months, or over the course of negotiations?

Now don't get me wrong, I think the way they are doing it is the fine, but I have to question someone who might be complaining about how much retro they get when they have only been in the new seat a few months.

Not trying to be arguementative(sp?) and too lazy to go back and read every post, but I haven't seen too many people complain who are, in fact, getting more than they deserve. I upgraded withing the amendable window, and am getting more than I 'should', so I'm not complaining about how much I get.

However, folks who have been sitting in the seat for the past 2.5 years are not getting what they should, on the low side, and that is a shame.

 

[PurpleTail]

The retro pay/signing bonus is a joke. I know pay was not a cornerstone issue but come on! What happen to "Make Them Pay For The Delay" motto YGTBSM!

Simple math for my seat shows my signing bonus equates to 1 yr 8 months of backpay instead of the 2 yrs 4 months. THATS AN ADDITIONAL 8 MONTHS OF PAY THE COMPANY IS GETTING AWAY WITH.

For the revenue we are generating for this company I haven't seen ANYTHING in the new contract that we haven't already earned or wasn't expected. This isn't even a homerun in a little league park. We DID make some concessions and I don't see any HUGE gains.

Sad, very sad.

I'm going to the roadshow Thurs in LA, will keep any open mind and weigh the whole contract but was expecting a little better.

 

[Brian a300]

The retro pay/signing bonus is a joke. I know pay was not a cornerstone issue but come on! What happen to "Make Them Pay For The Delay" motto YGTBSM!

Simple math for my seat shows my signing bonus equates to 1 yr 8 months of backpay instead of the 2 yrs 4 months. THATS AN ADDITIONAL 8 MONTHS OF PAY THE COMPANY IS GETTING AWAY WITH.

For the revenue we are generating for this company I haven't seen ANYTHING in the new contract that we haven't already earned or wasn't expected. This isn't even a homerun in a little league park. We DID make some concessions and I don't see any HUGE gains.

Sad, very sad.


I'm going to the roadshow Thurs in LA, will keep any open mind and weigh the whole contract but was expecting a little better.

Since this is pensionable, you will also get 6% toward your PMPP, B fund,, therefore for the lowly S/O will get an additional $450 and the wide body guy get $1800.

 

[Brian a300]

Albie: yes, and you are correct. I am thinking more of the hard working S/Os that don't happen to be flex types. It is a small group no doubt that haven't been able to hold widebody yet, but I still think that $7400 for the hardest working members of the crewforce is kind of weak.

That is just one small aspect of the contract, but it is telling to me. I don't think that a widebody CA deserves more than 4 times the bonus of a narrow body S/O, but that is just me. Not a deal breaker, just something that makes me go hmmmmmmmmmm.

Baron: At the local council meeting last month they mentioned the scope payments and they are still trying to decide what to do with them. That money already belongs to the union and isn't a factor in the TA. The union wants to put the money into those HSAs I think and they are still debating doing that or just giving it to the members.

All or most of us have been engineers, I was 1 for 4.5 yrs, I don't think it is the hardest job, probably the easiest.
If you don't like the rates, you can upgrade as soon as possible or quit your LCA job. Stop complaining!
We all pay our dues in some way, shape or form. If you don't like the TA vote no.

 

[Falconjet]

Brian: I guess I forgot that expressing an opinion on here would be construed as complaining. Thanks for reminding of me of where I am posting.

You see I am just trying to discuss the TA with others on the board to see what they think of various issues. I can see that you disagree with me on one. That lowly bonus doesn't affect me and I am not an LCA.

Why don't you take a crack at my question about the grandfather clause?

If you read my posts you will see that I am not advocating one way or the other. I plan on attending the road show(s), reading the TA and voting according to my needs. I hope you do the same.

Thanks for the encouragement.

FJ

 

[Purpled]

Why don't you take a crack at my question about the grandfather clause?
FJ

If you're referring to the non-members being exempted--

Making them pay would be a change in the conditions of their employment and subject to legal action which would be too expensive and a longshot to win.

In the end, is Agency shop worth it? Sure, since we didn't have to give up anything to get it...the company saw it as a no-cost item to make us 'happy.' If we had done some hard negotiation to get here, then that would be a total waste.

BTW, these questions are being addressed with much more 'meaty' discussions on other BBs. OK, only slightly more meaty.

 

[FDXer]

So..let me get this right...according to this thread our next cornerstone issues need to be:

1) S/O Flex Retro Pay
2) Training Pay
3) Anything that UPS got and we didn't
4) A change to the IRS code that allows tax free commuting

Ok, got it.

Now that's funny! That's the same thing I was thinking...

 

[Falconjet]

Went to the union meeting today in Memphis to hear the latest on the TA. Its technically not a roadshow I guess because they haven't had enough time to put togther a real road show yet. Some very interesting info though, and I urge everyone to get to one of these meetings/road shows if you can. There is nothing like getting the details on the negotiations right from the horses mouth.

Dave Webb said that there would be no job aide in the first couple of weeks to explain the changes and no plain language explanations. This was a conscientious decision because they want us to read the contract. Evidently the contract enforcement folks get several calls a day with questions that a simple reading of the contract would answer. They want us to read the actual contract because that is what we are voting on, not a bunch of bullets or explanations.

Bob C went over some good info. Overall, he seemed amazed that we were able to get the gains that we did. The union estimates that the value of the deal offered by the company to the Commercial Appeal on Apr 29 was worth about $443M for the 4 year deal (CY 2004 dollars). They also estimate that the TA has about $1B (CY 2007 dollars, a slight apples to oranges but still worth noting) in improvements over the 4 years.

Biggest changes are in the work rules, the new rig and the over 8 hour block provisions will really multiply real earnings improvements for the international folks.

Bonus was worth 90 Mil, but the company wanted to only pay half up front. Union said add interest then, and boom it went up to 95. Union also wanted it to be pensionable, boom it went up to 103M. Apparently the union decided how it would be divided up. They gave up a little on the A380 rates and the international override and included 737 and 757 in the narrow body pay scales to get the bonus done.

Retirement: he estimated 40 M in improvements. The B plan hike occured on the last day of negotiations.

Medical: we got what we were asking for, est $30 Mil improvement. HRAs for those 53 and older, a 43M trust fund for post medicare retirement folks. Rates fixed for the life of the contract, total lifetime benefit cap raised to 3 Mil per pilot.

Scope: Huge deal, cornerstone issue. He said be sure to really read Section 1. We did well there.

Training: ALPA training standard.

Life Ins: increase in amount of company funded life insurance with a opt out option to reduce tax implications if so inclined.

Anyway, not to steal too much of their thunder, but I was very impressed with the presentation. There were a lot of questions about the grid penalties and all that but they don't have too many answers on that yet, we have to wait and see how it pans out. Basically the company will have to pay for the numerous revisions on the international trips.

Oh yeah, on the agency shop, they did mention that not including the grandfather clause could open up the company and union to lawsuits about changing the conditions of employment (just as you said Purpled), so that answered my biggest question.

FJ