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Live4flyng
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 28, 2003
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Fuel Prices
We just received a letter stating that in lieu of charging us the fuel surcharges, if the contract passes, the Company would use the money saved from pilot raises to offset increases in the fuel surcharges.
Only joking .. but I know some on this board think that somehow it comes out of the pilots $$$.
Fly safe.
We just received a letter stating that in lieu of charging us the fuel surcharges, if the contract passes, the Company would use the money saved from pilot raises to offset increases in the fuel surcharges.
Only joking .. but I know some on this board think that somehow it comes out of the pilots $$$.
Fly safe.
NJA Owner
I think you've been pretty patient with us, and quite frankly, I have no problem believing you're an NJA owner.
Some of us are too busy at work to be sitting back on disability, confronting people all day long on a computer.
I have been flying for 21 years, have been an airline captain, part of an airline training department and flown charter and instruction. You might have noticed..I don't complain about the company.
The truth is, many people came here with completely unrealistic expectations about what kind of salary a high fixed cost operation like NJA could deliver.
The union message board ran awash with completely out of control statements like, "We're all getting 150k a year and 100 k in retro, man!" Yeah, like that will ever happen. We are now living in the very near future with 737 pilots at USAir making only $100 k a year, if they don't go out of business first.
NJA Owner, you will notice the same people posting over and over again. Netjets Wife's husband is a first officer. Despite his much publicised skills, his job description is, "to assist the captain". Sorry guys, you don't get the big bucks when you don't even sign a piece of paper.
Quite frankly, I am sick of the whining! You guys and girls that are sobbing here might be reminded that there are plenty of votes to go around and if you didn't get one, call the offices and get another.
Griz, you came on as a moderator when you were still on probation. You try hard to control the outcome of the vote, when clearly you have not acted impartially. I suggest you step down from that position.
To NJA Owner: The message board is dominated by the same 25 guys who post with continual repetition. They do not represent most of us who came here to enjoy the flying and meeting folks like you!
The Hawke
I think you've been pretty patient with us, and quite frankly, I have no problem believing you're an NJA owner.
Some of us are too busy at work to be sitting back on disability, confronting people all day long on a computer.
I have been flying for 21 years, have been an airline captain, part of an airline training department and flown charter and instruction. You might have noticed..I don't complain about the company.
The truth is, many people came here with completely unrealistic expectations about what kind of salary a high fixed cost operation like NJA could deliver.
The union message board ran awash with completely out of control statements like, "We're all getting 150k a year and 100 k in retro, man!" Yeah, like that will ever happen. We are now living in the very near future with 737 pilots at USAir making only $100 k a year, if they don't go out of business first.
NJA Owner, you will notice the same people posting over and over again. Netjets Wife's husband is a first officer. Despite his much publicised skills, his job description is, "to assist the captain". Sorry guys, you don't get the big bucks when you don't even sign a piece of paper.
Quite frankly, I am sick of the whining! You guys and girls that are sobbing here might be reminded that there are plenty of votes to go around and if you didn't get one, call the offices and get another.
Griz, you came on as a moderator when you were still on probation. You try hard to control the outcome of the vote, when clearly you have not acted impartially. I suggest you step down from that position.
To NJA Owner: The message board is dominated by the same 25 guys who post with continual repetition. They do not represent most of us who came here to enjoy the flying and meeting folks like you!
The Hawke
Oh Griz...poor Griz!
So you want to "out" NJA owner and everyone else for that matter...it seems that YOU have chosen the wrong forum!
By the way, your insistence of NJA owner's identity is in contravention of the confidentiality agreement you signed when you came here. Mr Santulli has published a letter to airmen stating such opinions about our owners, published on a public forum are grounds for dismissal.
You are riding on the razors edge there buddy!
So when are you coming back to work?
So you want to "out" NJA owner and everyone else for that matter...it seems that YOU have chosen the wrong forum!
By the way, your insistence of NJA owner's identity is in contravention of the confidentiality agreement you signed when you came here. Mr Santulli has published a letter to airmen stating such opinions about our owners, published on a public forum are grounds for dismissal.
You are riding on the razors edge there buddy!
So when are you coming back to work?
No...I'm not upset in the slightest. I am one of the ones you get so mad about that actually have my own money.
Anyway, we'll see about the T/A, I think it's in the bag!
Oh, one more thing, how'd you get so screwed up like that loading bags in NJ? Not a pre-existing condition is it? Sounds like you did a lot of time in aerobatic instruction.
Anyway, we'll see about the T/A, I think it's in the bag!
Oh, one more thing, how'd you get so screwed up like that loading bags in NJ? Not a pre-existing condition is it? Sounds like you did a lot of time in aerobatic instruction.
CRAWDADDY
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2004
- Posts
- 264
Hawkered said:
Oh, THAT letter. Even this spineless MEC saw to it that that letter went into the trash and they not try to force it on us again. "The company's definition of confidentiality will prevail" "Should the pilot persue this in court, he'll pay the legal expenses of both parties" "Whereas, whereas Whereas....."
Such a parody of legalese I thought it was a joke when I first saw it.
CRAWDADDY
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2004
- Posts
- 264
Hawkered said:
I'm afraid it'll be a lot closer than Griz thinks, but 1000+ petitions to bolt from 284 is a good sign
Hawkered said:
Ever since they started putting wheels on the bags, they've been getting heavier. OSHA would have a field day here. No way to lift with your legs going up a ladder. Bid the 800XP, just a suggestion.
AND, No more bags in the aisle, please! We don't need to hear about how the last crew let them carry the skis in the cabin.
Sorry folks, the rest of your bags are going via FedEx
CRAWDADDY
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2004
- Posts
- 264
Hawkered said:
You moron, they sent that same letter to people who had been here for years claiming it wasn't found in our files during an audit. There never was an audit,they made that up, it wasn't at my indoc., we were told to trash it. I, on the other hand, framed mine.
Go back under your rock!
CRAWDADDY
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2004
- Posts
- 264
Griz said:
And they did this w/o having the petition mailed to them
You might want to call Human Resources and ask what the number one workplace related injury is among pilots at NetJets. I’ll give you a hint – back injury. Ask how many have required multiple surgeries to fix the problems. I've already had one and another is coming up. Lastly, ask how many of our pilots have had to have spinal fusions. The answers might surprise you. I honestly hope that what's happened to me never happens to another person at NetJets. A stronger training program on back injury has been started but policies need to be put into place that helps prevent this from happening to anyone else.
Griz said:
Like to see him step out and call me a moron. The ad hominen attacks show he's already lost the argument
In defense of Griz -
Hawk -- in defense of Griz (why I don't know) he never wanted to "out" me. He just wanted by PM any of my name, my name the share is in, my contract number or my customer service phone number. All of which identify me and only me and I am not willing to share any of this info. He did send me his home number and I left a message. We haven't spoken. I do not need to actually "prove" myself to anyone on this board (Griz -- quote line, insert "troll" response here).
That being said, I think the genesis of the "comments about owners policy" started after someone at NetJets (it may have been sales and not a pilot) mentioned to a reporter about the great service to owners, even as far as having a Big Mac ready for Tiger Woods when he gets on the plane. Coincindentially, the article appeared while Tiger was in a slump and questions were raised about his eating habits and health.
Fly safe.
Hawk -- in defense of Griz (why I don't know) he never wanted to "out" me. He just wanted by PM any of my name, my name the share is in, my contract number or my customer service phone number. All of which identify me and only me and I am not willing to share any of this info. He did send me his home number and I left a message. We haven't spoken. I do not need to actually "prove" myself to anyone on this board (Griz -- quote line, insert "troll" response here).
That being said, I think the genesis of the "comments about owners policy" started after someone at NetJets (it may have been sales and not a pilot) mentioned to a reporter about the great service to owners, even as far as having a Big Mac ready for Tiger Woods when he gets on the plane. Coincindentially, the article appeared while Tiger was in a slump and questions were raised about his eating habits and health.
Fly safe.
Trolls
To quote you: Griz on 10-02-04 - Where is NJAOwner? thread:
You're the one making claims about an being owner..not me. Unless and until, you're willing to put up proof, you're just another troll in my book.
sorry I am not good with the proper "quoting technique".
Apology accepted in advance.
Read my posts without being judgmental. My posts and agenda have not been "company driven". In fact they are "owner driven". I just don't agree with all some of you have said, but have strongly advocated better compensation and ways to accomplish that goal without alienating the owners.
To quote you: Griz on 10-02-04 - Where is NJAOwner? thread:
You're the one making claims about an being owner..not me. Unless and until, you're willing to put up proof, you're just another troll in my book.
sorry I am not good with the proper "quoting technique".
Apology accepted in advance.
Read my posts without being judgmental. My posts and agenda have not been "company driven". In fact they are "owner driven". I just don't agree with all some of you have said, but have strongly advocated better compensation and ways to accomplish that goal without alienating the owners.
Dear NJA Owner,
It is certainly not anything against you, it's just that there are too many suspicious things going on here. How does a retired man with a broken back, working as a first officer on a business-jet think he's worth six figures? Who's paying for that? Why was a union message board allowed to be "run" and let me also say, "run away" the way it has it in the last three years? We had people getting into debt, way out of control and promising their spouses this and that....and look at them now. Broken men and women with the rug they built for themselves pulled out from beneath their feet!
These are the same people that will blame the union, it's MEC, the company and even the owners for their demonstrably low levels of personal responsibility. These are the same people that bought the union Kool-Aid that now chant in unison, "Strong Union dot org...Strong Union dot org..Strong Union dot org!"
These people are followers, not leaders. The company doesn't need them, you don't need them and I don't need them.
Simon Cowell of "American Idol", fame made a fortune just by telling the truth.
Here you can get it for free!
It is certainly not anything against you, it's just that there are too many suspicious things going on here. How does a retired man with a broken back, working as a first officer on a business-jet think he's worth six figures? Who's paying for that? Why was a union message board allowed to be "run" and let me also say, "run away" the way it has it in the last three years? We had people getting into debt, way out of control and promising their spouses this and that....and look at them now. Broken men and women with the rug they built for themselves pulled out from beneath their feet!
These are the same people that will blame the union, it's MEC, the company and even the owners for their demonstrably low levels of personal responsibility. These are the same people that bought the union Kool-Aid that now chant in unison, "Strong Union dot org...Strong Union dot org..Strong Union dot org!"
These people are followers, not leaders. The company doesn't need them, you don't need them and I don't need them.
Simon Cowell of "American Idol", fame made a fortune just by telling the truth.
Here you can get it for free!
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Griz,
It's time to get over it man! You led a charge on the message board that got peoples expectations up. The same with the other dozen or so that post and post adnauseum. You guys think you represent the majority.
You don't!
Your loyalty to the MEC was misplaced...you made a mistake, get over it!
In the meantime, get better soon, I really mean it. I had no idea it was that bad and feel like crap now for bringing it up! I was told you were milking the system...you're obviously not.
I agree with Crawdaddy about the bags, they're getting bigger every week. Something should be done about it!
It's time to get over it man! You led a charge on the message board that got peoples expectations up. The same with the other dozen or so that post and post adnauseum. You guys think you represent the majority.
You don't!
Your loyalty to the MEC was misplaced...you made a mistake, get over it!
In the meantime, get better soon, I really mean it. I had no idea it was that bad and feel like crap now for bringing it up! I was told you were milking the system...you're obviously not.
I agree with Crawdaddy about the bags, they're getting bigger every week. Something should be done about it!
Bags & Expectations
Bags. I'll admit, I have been guilty on the bags front. A few years ago I bought a few of the new, larger bags. While they hold more, they do weigh a ton. And it is worse, since I am a very effcient packer. I can repack 2 bags done by my wife into one. I have gotten nailed on commercial flights for weight. However, I take them out of the car (not the pilots) and I help pick them up to get them in the cargo area.
Expectations. Most people in the world feel s-crew-ed when expectations are not met, no matter how wild the expectations are. If your 7 year old is expecting a PlayStation for X-mas and only gets a GameBoy, he feels let down. If you expect an incredible meal at a restaurant and only get a great one, you feel let down. If Wall Street analysts expect a company's earnings to go up by 50%, and they only deliver a 45% increase (which is incredible), the stock gets punished badly. It is all about whether expectations are met. More important in the process is controlling the expectations. If analysts only expect a 5% increase in earnings and the company delivers 7%, the stock price increases. Strange huh?? -- 45% increase stock goes down, 7% increase stock goes up.
I have absolutely no idea what happened with the contract. What I can glean from being on this board is that expectations were not met. I am not opining as to the reasonableness of the expectations or placing blame on why they were not met. Just they were not met and people are mad.
And you can't spend what you don't have (or it is troublesome if you do). I would love a share in a C-X or a G-200 or Falcon. I do expect the earnings of my companies to increase over the next few years. But when my contract was up for renewal within the past year, I re-upped in the Excel. Didn't spend what I didn't have yet. Same principle applies at all levels.
Fly safe.
Bags. I'll admit, I have been guilty on the bags front. A few years ago I bought a few of the new, larger bags. While they hold more, they do weigh a ton. And it is worse, since I am a very effcient packer. I can repack 2 bags done by my wife into one. I have gotten nailed on commercial flights for weight. However, I take them out of the car (not the pilots) and I help pick them up to get them in the cargo area.
Expectations. Most people in the world feel s-crew-ed when expectations are not met, no matter how wild the expectations are. If your 7 year old is expecting a PlayStation for X-mas and only gets a GameBoy, he feels let down. If you expect an incredible meal at a restaurant and only get a great one, you feel let down. If Wall Street analysts expect a company's earnings to go up by 50%, and they only deliver a 45% increase (which is incredible), the stock gets punished badly. It is all about whether expectations are met. More important in the process is controlling the expectations. If analysts only expect a 5% increase in earnings and the company delivers 7%, the stock price increases. Strange huh?? -- 45% increase stock goes down, 7% increase stock goes up.
I have absolutely no idea what happened with the contract. What I can glean from being on this board is that expectations were not met. I am not opining as to the reasonableness of the expectations or placing blame on why they were not met. Just they were not met and people are mad.
And you can't spend what you don't have (or it is troublesome if you do). I would love a share in a C-X or a G-200 or Falcon. I do expect the earnings of my companies to increase over the next few years. But when my contract was up for renewal within the past year, I re-upped in the Excel. Didn't spend what I didn't have yet. Same principle applies at all levels.
Fly safe.
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netjetwife
1 of many w/an opinion
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2004
- Posts
- 2,741
Excuse me--did I hear my name?
Quite frankly, you're as bad as the MEC--you just don't get it! Actively working to better one's condition through strong, unified, efforts has everything to do with guts and integrity and nothing at all to do with plaintive crying. Why don't you tell our owner here, all about how the company decided to give 116 FOs bypass pay because they got tired of hearing them whine?! LOL You must have ESP, Hawke, the MEC ballot STILL hasn't shown up. Good advice on calling the office. That call HAS been made, but it WASN'T to Local 284.
Hawkered, how often in this industry does a pilot get to start out as Captain? But then, my husband flies for NJA--famous for having 2 CAPTAINS in every plane! And that's not REALLY a lie. The lowly paid FOs DO have the credentials, after all. So do tell us ...how much should the FO be paid for his "assistance"? And exactly how many "big bucks" do YOU get for signing "a piece of paper"? For that matter, how long did YOU spend at FO pay?Hawkered said:
Quite frankly, you're as bad as the MEC--you just don't get it! Actively working to better one's condition through strong, unified, efforts has everything to do with guts and integrity and nothing at all to do with plaintive crying. Why don't you tell our owner here, all about how the company decided to give 116 FOs bypass pay because they got tired of hearing them whine?! LOL You must have ESP, Hawke, the MEC ballot STILL hasn't shown up. Good advice on calling the office. That call HAS been made, but it WASN'T to Local 284.
netjetwife
1 of many w/an opinion
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2004
- Posts
- 2,741
Qualified \Qual"i*fied\, a. 1. Fitted by accomplishments or endowments.Hawkered said:
Syn: Competent; fit; adapted.
Usage: Qualified, Competent. Competent is most commonly used with respect to native endowments and general ability suited to the performance of a task or duty; qualified with respect to specific acquirements and training.
In other words, my husband, and the other FOs could just as easily "sign the paper"; they lack the authority, NOT the skill.
It is common knowledge that companies which fail to pay well enough to attract/retain qualified workers have two options: increase the pay or lower the standards. Who would you rather fly with, an FO equally qualified to be the captain, or one less able to pull their weight in the cockpit?
CatYaaak
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2002
- Posts
- 809
No doubt Hawkered is thankful that you've enlightened him on how the system works, and what having a type-rated F/O means. His 9800 hours indicates he's a relative newbie to flying and probably has a base of aviation knowledge akin to..say..a social group consisting of non-flying, pilot's wives?netjetwife said:
And with such little experience, I'm sure he never knew that getting a type-rating or passing a check-ride is in part a demonstration of flying skill and ability that makes one qualified to do certain job-related things...you know, competency. With only 9800 hours, what are the odds that he's ever been a Captain flying with a type-rated F/O, been a type-rated F/O himself, or been in a situation where he's sitting in the right seat while at the same time possessing more experience than the pilot in the left?......slim, no doubt! I'm sure his lack or response has something to do with him pondering the stunning revalations you've exposed him to here (indeed to all of us) and the uniqueness of your husband's situation.
But what's all this talk about lowering standards? Didn't you say your husband is well-qualified?....Didn't he recently go there?
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L
Les Paul
LOL!! OMG!!netjetwife said:
Is this woman STIL spending 24 hour a day on this forum, typing 250 words per minute?!! She was yapping 500 miles a minute the last time I was on this forum several weeks ago.
Lady... for crying out loud get a LIFE!! My goodness, what is your problem? Actually it is apparent what your problem is... but please.... WE GET YOUR POINT already!! Let someone else have a chance to make their point. You don't have to live on flightinfo.
Why don't you let your husband speak for himself. There is NOTHING worse than when people run around constantly speaking for others like you seem to be doing 24x7 on the internet. You are not helping your pity party thats for sure.
Okay... here goes. Your husband is underpauid. Netjets is a terrible company for treating and paying its pilots what they pay them. They should be punished and forced to pay.
Starting pay of $70,000 for FO's and $120,000 for Captains, with a minimum day off guarantee of 20 days a month.
100% match 401(k), and full profit sharing, even in years of losses.
All pilots should get retro pay, and signing bonus, and a new Cadillac.
Full company paid medical and dental and life insurance, and all mortagages and rent will be paid by the company.
Netjetswife husband is awarded "Pilot of the Decade" at an awards ceremony at the White House. In that ceremony they will play the CVR and FDR computer generated graphic of of his famed "Landing on a 3000 ft strip in the Mountains" that Netjetswife is brags about.
Netjetswife will rub elbows with VIP's, and cry as she is awarded "Mother of the Masses" by the Presidents Wife, while America the Beautiful is played by the Marine Corps Band.
Are you happy now!! WE agree with you. We get your point... now please back away from the addiction.
Les Paul
L
Les Paul
The following persons post is being hidden because I am too intimidated to allow this person to type words that will offend or even hurt me.
Get all that?
Its a good thing those words can no longer hurt me!
Les Paul
I see that CatYaaak posted a reply. As much as I would love to be able to read his reply, unfortunately, Griz has chosen to ignore me, so I am ignoring Griz, but now Griz has chosen to ignore CatYaaak, so I must ignore CatYaaak because if Griz is ignoring him, and ignoring me, and I'm ignoring Griz, it only makes sense to ignore CatYaaak.CatYaaak said:
Get all that?
Its a good thing those words can no longer hurt me!
Les Paul
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