Fuel Price

[Hawkered]

Griz,

It's time to get over it man! You led a charge on the message board that got peoples expectations up. The same with the other dozen or so that post and post adnauseum. You guys think you represent the majority.

You don't!

Your loyalty to the MEC was misplaced...you made a mistake, get over it!

In the meantime, get better soon, I really mean it. I had no idea it was that bad and feel like crap now for bringing it up! I was told you were milking the system...you're obviously not.

I agree with Crawdaddy about the bags, they're getting bigger every week. Something should be done about it!

 

[NJAowner]

Bags & Expectations

Bags. I'll admit, I have been guilty on the bags front. A few years ago I bought a few of the new, larger bags. While they hold more, they do weigh a ton. And it is worse, since I am a very effcient packer. I can repack 2 bags done by my wife into one. I have gotten nailed on commercial flights for weight. However, I take them out of the car (not the pilots) and I help pick them up to get them in the cargo area.

Expectations. Most people in the world feel s-crew-ed when expectations are not met, no matter how wild the expectations are. If your 7 year old is expecting a PlayStation for X-mas and only gets a GameBoy, he feels let down. If you expect an incredible meal at a restaurant and only get a great one, you feel let down. If Wall Street analysts expect a company's earnings to go up by 50%, and they only deliver a 45% increase (which is incredible), the stock gets punished badly. It is all about whether expectations are met. More important in the process is controlling the expectations. If analysts only expect a 5% increase in earnings and the company delivers 7%, the stock price increases. Strange huh?? -- 45% increase stock goes down, 7% increase stock goes up.

I have absolutely no idea what happened with the contract. What I can glean from being on this board is that expectations were not met. I am not opining as to the reasonableness of the expectations or placing blame on why they were not met. Just they were not met and people are mad.

And you can't spend what you don't have (or it is troublesome if you do). I would love a share in a C-X or a G-200 or Falcon. I do expect the earnings of my companies to increase over the next few years. But when my contract was up for renewal within the past year, I re-upped in the Excel. Didn't spend what I didn't have yet. Same principle applies at all levels.


Fly safe.

 

[netjetwife]

Excuse me--did I hear my name?

NJA Owner, you will notice the same people posting over and over again. Netjets Wife's husband is a first officer. Despite his much publicised skills, his job description is, "to assist the captain". Sorry guys, you don't get the big bucks when you don't even sign a piece of paper.

Quite frankly, I am sick of the whining! You guys and girls that are sobbing here might be reminded that there are plenty of votes to go around and if you didn't get one, call the offices and get another.
The Hawke

Hawkered, how often in this industry does a pilot get to start out as Captain? But then, my husband flies for NJA--famous for having 2 CAPTAINS in every plane! And that's not REALLY a lie. The lowly paid FOs DO have the credentials, after all. So do tell us ...how much should the FO be paid for his "assistance"? And exactly how many "big bucks" do YOU get for signing "a piece of paper"? For that matter, how long did YOU spend at FO pay?

Quite frankly, you're as bad as the MEC--you just don't get it! Actively working to better one's condition through strong, unified, efforts has everything to do with guts and integrity and nothing at all to do with plaintive crying. Why don't you tell our owner here, all about how the company decided to give 116 FOs bypass pay because they got tired of hearing them whine?! LOL You must have ESP, Hawke, the MEC ballot STILL hasn't shown up. Good advice on calling the office. That call HAS been made, but it WASN'T to Local 284.

 

[Hawkered]

We don't have two captains in every plane, even when two captain qualified crew are assigned there is still only one captain.

The F/Os don't do FAR 135.299 rides. Lots of people have failed upgrade.

 

[netjetwife]

two captain qualified crew are assigned

Qualified \Qual"i*fied\, a. 1. Fitted by accomplishments or endowments.

Syn: Competent; fit; adapted.

Usage: Qualified, Competent. Competent is most commonly used with respect to native endowments and general ability suited to the performance of a task or duty; qualified with respect to specific acquirements and training.

In other words, my husband, and the other FOs could just as easily "sign the paper"; they lack the authority, NOT the skill.

It is common knowledge that companies which fail to pay well enough to attract/retain qualified workers have two options: increase the pay or lower the standards. Who would you rather fly with, an FO equally qualified to be the captain, or one less able to pull their weight in the cockpit?

 

[CatYaaak]

Qualified \Qual"i*fied\, a. 1. Fitted by accomplishments or endowments.

Syn: Competent; fit; adapted.

Usage: Qualified, Competent. Competent is most commonly used with respect to native endowments and general ability suited to the performance of a task or duty; qualified with respect to specific acquirements and training.

In other words, my husband, and the other FOs could just as easily "sign the paper"; they lack the authority, NOT the skill.

It is common knowledge that companies which fail to pay well enough to attract/retain qualified workers have two options: increase the pay or lower the standards. Who would you rather fly with, an FO equally qualified to be the captain, or one less able to pull their weight in the cockpit?

No doubt Hawkered is thankful that you've enlightened him on how the system works, and what having a type-rated F/O means. His 9800 hours indicates he's a relative newbie to flying and probably has a base of aviation knowledge akin to..say..a social group consisting of non-flying, pilot's wives?

And with such little experience, I'm sure he never knew that getting a type-rating or passing a check-ride is in part a demonstration of flying skill and ability that makes one qualified to do certain job-related things...you know, competency. With only 9800 hours, what are the odds that he's ever been a Captain flying with a type-rated F/O, been a type-rated F/O himself, or been in a situation where he's sitting in the right seat while at the same time possessing more experience than the pilot in the left?......slim, no doubt! I'm sure his lack or response has something to do with him pondering the stunning revalations you've exposed him to here (indeed to all of us) and the uniqueness of your husband's situation.

But what's all this talk about lowering standards? Didn't you say your husband is well-qualified?....Didn't he recently go there?

 

[Les Paul]

Hawkered, how often in this industry does a pilot get to start out as Captain? But then, my husband flies for NJA--famous for having 2 CAPTAINS in every plane! And that's not REALLY a lie. The lowly paid FOs DO have the credentials, after all. So do tell us ...how much should the FO be paid for his "assistance"? And exactly how many "big bucks" do YOU get for signing "a piece of paper"? For that matter, how long did YOU spend at FO pay?

LOL!! OMG!!

Is this woman STIL spending 24 hour a day on this forum, typing 250 words per minute?!! She was yapping 500 miles a minute the last time I was on this forum several weeks ago.

Lady... for crying out loud get a LIFE!! My goodness, what is your problem? Actually it is apparent what your problem is... but please.... WE GET YOUR POINT already!! Let someone else have a chance to make their point. You don't have to live on flightinfo.

Why don't you let your husband speak for himself. There is NOTHING worse than when people run around constantly speaking for others like you seem to be doing 24x7 on the internet. You are not helping your pity party thats for sure.

Okay... here goes. Your husband is underpauid. Netjets is a terrible company for treating and paying its pilots what they pay them. They should be punished and forced to pay.

Starting pay of $70,000 for FO's and $120,000 for Captains, with a minimum day off guarantee of 20 days a month.

100% match 401(k), and full profit sharing, even in years of losses.

All pilots should get retro pay, and signing bonus, and a new Cadillac.

Full company paid medical and dental and life insurance, and all mortagages and rent will be paid by the company.

Netjetswife husband is awarded "Pilot of the Decade" at an awards ceremony at the White House. In that ceremony they will play the CVR and FDR computer generated graphic of of his famed "Landing on a 3000 ft strip in the Mountains" that Netjetswife is brags about.

Netjetswife will rub elbows with VIP's, and cry as she is awarded "Mother of the Masses" by the Presidents Wife, while America the Beautiful is played by the Marine Corps Band.

Are you happy now!! WE agree with you. We get your point... now please back away from the addiction.

Les Paul

 

[NJAowner]

NetJetWife

Les Paul --very good. But she would still be unhappy .. they delivered the wrong color Cadillac.

Fly safe.

 

[CatYaaak]

...All pilots should get retro pay, and signing bonus, and a new Cadillac.

Full company paid medical and dental and life insurance, and all mortagages and rent will be paid by the company.

Netjetswife husband is awarded "Pilot of the Decade" at an awards ceremony at the White House. In that ceremony they will play the CVR and FDR computer generated graphic of of his famed "Landing on a 3000 ft strip in the Mountains" that Netjetswife is brags about.

Netjetswife will rub elbows with VIP's, and cry as she is awarded "Mother of the Masses" by the Presidents Wife, while America the Beautiful is played by the Marine Corps Band....

What, no company-supplied comfort girls on RONs?

 

[Les Paul]

The following persons post is being hidden because I am too intimidated to allow this person to type words that will offend or even hurt me.

Sorry....Hidden

I see that CatYaaak posted a reply. As much as I would love to be able to read his reply, unfortunately, Griz has chosen to ignore me, so I am ignoring Griz, but now Griz has chosen to ignore CatYaaak, so I must ignore CatYaaak because if Griz is ignoring him, and ignoring me, and I'm ignoring Griz, it only makes sense to ignore CatYaaak.

Get all that?

Its a good thing those words can no longer hurt me!

Les Paul

 

[netjetwife]

But what's all this talk about lowering standards? Didn't you say your husband is well-qualified?....Didn't he recently go there?

Absolutely, he saw the potential and chose to give it a try, but when his F16 friend was offered the job they talked and now his friend is flying for AirTran at better pay than NJA offered. If the contract doesn't improve, my husband will leave, and there are others that feel the same way.

 

[PseudoName]

Hey Les.....glad to see you are back to contributing to this forum. There is one thing you failed to observe about why we hear from NetJokesWife all the time on flightinfo instead of her hubby. I have a feeling that when he is home, she has him busy doing all the household chores that should have been completed while he was away instead of living on flightinfo. Just my observation.....and I am entitled to it!!!


....and for NetJokesWife....you mentioned that if the pay doesn't increase substantially at NJA, you husband and others will leave for places like AirTran??? HELLO, McFLY!!!! Have you heard about the thousands of pilots who are just as qualified as your hubby, are out of work, and have ALREADY applied to practically every company who is currently hiring.....unless he wants to work for a regional....making the same, or less money.....and working TWICE the duty hours!!

Go Ahead....let 'em all quit if they don't get the money. I know of a bunch of 1000 hour CFI's who are just dying to work for NetJoke....for current wages....don't think this will happen? Sorry, it already is!!

 

[Diesel]

just a point... there might be a ton of 1000 hr cfi's but they can't get hired. It's 2500tt and 500multi. It's in the owners contract and NJA can't change it.

Trust me if they could have lowered the mins they would have a long time ago.

 

[PseudoName]

....ok, 2500 hour CFI's, piston cargo pilots, etc.

You know what my point is. There is always someone more eager, educated, younger, and willing to accept a job at NetJoke. Sad, but true.

And I bet Warren will hire them too!

 

[netjetwife]

I am not worried about my husband finding a better paying job. Of course I think that NJA could wind up lowering their standards. I have already made that point in another post. There will be negative repercussions from that, however. The owners sold on having the most experienced pilots will cry foul when it becomes apparent that such is not the case, and NJA Captains will find themselves flying with less qualified FOs, thereby working even harder for their subpar wages. They will become dissatisfied and the downward spiral will continue. Frankly, that is a path I don't think the company will want to follow. It will be far easier and smarter to pay the pilots fairly.

My husband had been working the phones to help get bypass pay for 116 FOs; he also works as a volunteer for StrongUnion. TOGETHER we replaced a sliding glass door last time he was home. You're right about housework piling up; I've got to go do some now.

BTW, I thought of some rude versions of your name, too, PseudoName, but decided that I was too smart and polite to go down that path. Keep it up and you'll prove my husband right--he says that you guys aren't worth the time it takes to post here. I choose to give people a chance first. We can discuss the issues or you can be a jerk and wind up on my ignore list. The choice is yours to make.

I'm off to clean the kitchen.... The board is all yours!

 

[Diesel]

pseudo name your all tooo right. There is allways someone willing to take the job no matter how bad it is. Look at gulfstream. They even have pilots willing to buy their jobs.

At least they can't change the minimums because of their contracts. It helps a little.

 

[Les Paul]

My husband had been working the phones to help get bypass pay for 116 FOs; he also works as a volunteer for StrongUnion. TOGETHER we replaced a sliding glass door last time he was home. You're right about housework piling up; I've got to go do some now.

BTW, Keep it up and you'll prove my husband right--he says that you guys aren't worth the time it takes to post here. I choose to give people a chance first. We can discuss the issues or you can be a jerk and wind up on my ignore list. The choice is yours to make.

I'm off to clean the kitchen.... The board is all yours!

Of course your husband is on the phone, you're always hogging the computer.

Also glad to hear there was no foul play involved during the installation of the sliding glass door. It is a good indicator of the patience your husband obviously has.

As far as your "ignore" list, that function is all about you being able to talk, and not have to listen.

Les Paul

 

[PseudoName]

BTW, I thought of some rude versions of your name, too, PseudoName, but decided that I was too smart and polite to go down that path. Keep it up and you'll prove my husband right--he says that you guys aren't worth the time it takes to post here. I choose to give people a chance first. We can discuss the issues or you can be a jerk and wind up on my ignore list. The choice is yours to make.

Mrs. NetJETWife,

Did I address you correctly? I cannot believe that after all the time you spend on this board, you do not know that NetJets is now often referred to as NetJoke. You actually think I spent the time to think of a rude version of a non important screen name, come on now, name calling?? Get with the program lady!

You want me on your ignore list? Well then, nothing is stopping you, go ahead. By doing so, you have just indicated to me and the rest of the users on this board that what I post on this board has validity and hits home. If it didn't, you would just let my opinion bounce off as everyone else does when there is a disagreement with a posting.

"Yeah the truth hurts.......well, maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with a seat missing.......but it hurts!", Det. Frank Drebben

 

[netjetwife]

Just making sure...

My apology if no disrespect was intended, PseudoName, but it DOES look insulting. There are many good people working hard to make NJA a better place. We are making progress ....a phone call....a post....a vote....at a time. A little understanding and civility would go a long way toward making our job easier.
Netjetwife



A RISING TIDE LIFTS ALL BOATS

 

[Les Paul]

We are making progress ....a phone call....a post....a vote....at a time. A little understanding and civility would go a long way toward making our job easier.
Netjetwife

There it is. We have finally boiled this whole thing down to what really is your PROBLEM. You say "OUR JOB". What job exactly are you doing. You don't work at Netjets. Your husband does. You don't VOTE. You're husband does. Sooooo... yell at hubbie to vote no and move on. The people who are from Netjets on this forum all have said they will vote NO. So what MESSAGE are you spreading, other than you are a pathetic, annoying noodge.

All the other people who ACTUALLY WORK at Netjets will also vote, and quite frankly, it none of your d*mn business how they vote. THEY WORK THERE. Once again YOU DO NOT.

Repeat after me:

I will log off the internet.

I will throw all twinkies and bon bons away.

I will get a job doing something economically productive to help me, my hubby, and family.

I will stop spending my hundreds of hours wasted internet fantasy chat arguing with people who don't even work at Netjets or have a VOTE at Netjets, while pretending I'm "Working".

Les Paul