Frontiers a319s going to Midwest

[Ameriagle]

It would be great to see those "Marketing and reservation employees" just walk off the job in solidarty of everyone at Midwest getting screwed.

Bedford loose $1,000's of dollars missing ticket sales and proper marketing for however long it takes to ramp up something of his own.

They won't do that for the same reason that 90% of those on this message board won't!

 

[likeitis]

Very nice response. Some angry and disallusioned Midwest pilots are blaming RJET for all their woes. RJET was simple a bank that allowed Midwest to remain in business a few month's longer. Midwest woes started long ago. Midwest failure is due to a failure of their business plan in the free market. Obviously passengers made their choice to fly their competitors. Costs at Midwest were too high. Its so simple.

LITTLE INCOME - HUGE EXPENSES = BAD LONG-TERM BUSINESS PLAN

Midwest wasn't offering the flight options that their customer based wanted. No company should remain in business that fails its customers. Midwest employees should look to and hold their CEO and Board of Directors responsible for all its woes. Lets hope that BB can make this company successful in the current market for its passengers, shareholders, and employees.

I find many complainers on this website actually hate and despise the free market. They want a guaranteed job in a non-competitive market. That's called socialism or communism folks. If that is what you really want, Cuba and Russia are great places to live.

Nice arguement but not based in reality. Explain the 178 million in cash that Midwest had a year ago that disappeared into TPG's and TH's pockets. It's pretty obvious that Midwest could have been a profitable carrier had that been the goal. It's purpose is becoming clearer now and the pilots shouldn't be held accountable for things out of their control. The current pilots flying for YX and RAH have some control left but I have no faith in them to do anything.

 

[nimtz]

Very nice response. Some angry and disallusioned Midwest pilots are blaming RJET for all their woes. RJET was simple a bank that allowed Midwest to remain in business a few month's longer. Midwest woes started long ago. Midwest failure is due to a failure of their business plan in the free market. Obviously passengers made their choice to fly their competitors. Costs at Midwest were too high. Its so simple.

LITTLE INCOME - HUGE EXPENSES = BAD LONG-TERM BUSINESS PLAN

Midwest wasn't offering the flight options that their customer based wanted. No company should remain in business that fails its customers. Midwest employees should look to and hold their CEO and Board of Directors responsible for all its woes. Lets hope that BB can make this company successful in the current market for its passengers, shareholders, and employees.

I find many complainers on this website actually hate and despise the free market. They want a guaranteed job in a non-competitive market. That's called socialism or communism folks. If that is what you really want, Cuba and Russia are great places to live.

What a gigantic McDoush. Wow look here fellows, we got an 'Airline Capt' with the EMB-170/90 time! Rev Bedford has been able to keep his cost low for years because guys like you want the title 'airline capt' irregardless of the pay/benefits. In the meantime, career jobs in 737's have been beat down to a JOB which you have. You are right the free market is a b!tch and it will bite you in the @ss one day too. Sadly there are plenty of up and comers who have the same stars in their eyes you once had. One day you'll be the one being told that your salary causes the company's costs to be too high.

 

[crashpad]

Bedford stated airbus coming to MKE. SWEET!

 

[CitationLover]

Very nice response. Some angry and disallusioned Midwest pilots are blaming RJET for all their woes. RJET was simple a bank that allowed Midwest to remain in business a few month's longer. Midwest woes started long ago. Midwest failure is due to a failure of their business plan in the free market. Obviously passengers made their choice to fly their competitors. Costs at Midwest were too high. Its so simple.

LITTLE INCOME - HUGE EXPENSES = BAD LONG-TERM BUSINESS PLAN

Midwest wasn't offering the flight options that their customer based wanted. No company should remain in business that fails its customers. Midwest employees should look to and hold their CEO and Board of Directors responsible for all its woes. Lets hope that BB can make this company successful in the current market for its passengers, shareholders, and employees.

I find many complainers on this website actually hate and despise the free market. They want a guaranteed job in a non-competitive market. That's called socialism or communism folks. If that is what you really want, Cuba and Russia are great places to live.

You equate aviation as a free market, you are so high! Aviation is SO government subsidized it is beyond belief. Ticket prices are the ultimate price fixing scam abound. The large carriers are simply large due to the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT feeding them mail contracts and the CAB funnelling them routes. Learn the history.

Costs at Midwest are the reason? HA! We were making money before TPG stepped in and brought in Seabury, who took more in fees in a year and a half than the pilots compensation!

Keep believing in that pipe dream of a "free market" you see in aviation. God bless from your pathetic CEO who only knows how to take and take and doesn't have an ounce of vision in his body. He's got all you RAH pilots goosestepping to his gospel.

 

[appendix]

YX pilots blaming management will have no effect on our situation. Management is making a concerted effort to eradicate every one of us.

Republic Pilots: I've read many posts that state "we're just doing our job," "it's not our fault, we feel bad for the YX guys but there is nothing we can do about it." A comparison that I would draw would be the many war atrocities which have occurred throughout history where the offending parties who committed horrible crimes stated, "it's not our fault, we were following orders." Granted, what's being done to the YX pilots is not nearly as egregious as my example, however, to us this is a life altering experience. I'm also reading posts regarding Republic contract negotiations which state "we have to get our pay up to industry standards for the good of the profession". You came into MKE, under cut our rates until all the YX Pilots are gone AND NOW YOU WANT A PAY RAISE? WHAT ABOUT US! I don't mean to be inflammatory but actions speak louder than words.

F9 Pilots: You were recently on the bubble concerned about your future. You now have a new lease on life. F9 will be flying YX flights under some bogus code share agreement, further ensuring the end of our careers.

We need a grass roots effort from both Republic and Frontier line pilots. WILL YOU HELP?

Jetupset: did you speak up when TH shut down Skyway? .....karma

 

[CitationLover]

Jetupset: did you speak up when TH shut down Skyway? .....karma

First off learn the facts. Dick Schifter mandated Skyway shut down and TH's jaw dropped to the floor. TH didn't want to shut Skyway down.

And secondly, the Midwest MEC asked for ALL Skyway pilots to be placed on the Midwest Seniority List and were turned down by management.

 

[deadstick]

First off learn the facts. Dick Schifter mandated Skyway shut down and TH's jaw dropped to the floor. TH didn't want to shut Skyway down.

And secondly, the Midwest MEC asked for ALL Skyway pilots to be placed on the Midwest Seniority List and were turned down by management.

The first part was news to me, but the second was not. I thought TH wanted to non-jets and 328s gone.

 

[CitationLover]

The first part was news to me, but the second was not. I thought TH wanted to non-jets and 328s gone.

We were told by our MEC that Dick Schifter told senior Midwest leadership during the TPG prep that Skyway would go and that they left the meeting bewildered by what just occurred.

As far as I know, Midwest is still paying for the 328's sitting wherever they are.

 

[FSIGRAD]

so now FAPA is happily stealing Midwest jobs? one big, happy family.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brj2UkUPjCI

 

[$$$4nothin]

So, RAH guys, explain how that is all going to work if all pilots have to be on one list? How is Frontier going to operate on a separate contract? This just gets better and better.

THIS IS HOW

D. Scope
1. This Agreement covers the company, any subsidiary of the
company, the company’s parent, any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and any future airline certificate(s) created as
a subsidiary of the company or subsidiary of the company’s
parent.
2. Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, all present and
future flying (including that international flying which originates
or terminates within the United States or its possessions) and all
charters, ferry flights (not including ferry flights of newlyacquired
aircraft prior to being placed in revenue service),
training flights, test flights, (except test flights assigned to
management), or other utilization of aircraft owned or leased by
the company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company or subsidiary of the company’s parent shall be
performed by pilots on the Chautauqua Airlines Pilots’ System
Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this
Agreement or any other applicable agreement between the
company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and the International Brotherhood of
Teamsters, Airline Division.
3. The Company, Subsidiary of the Company, the Company’s
Parent or Subsidiary of the Parent shall not establish any new
airline (alter ego or otherwise) or acquire a controlling interest in
any carrier whether directly or through the Parent or another
Subsidiary of the Parent, and maintain it as a separate carrier.
A “Controlling Interest” or “Control” means the ownership of an
equity interest representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the
outstanding capital stock of an entity or voting securities
representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the total voting
power of outstanding securities then entitled to vote generally in
the election of such entity’s board of directors or other governing
body.
4. The Company will not transfer aircraft, or operating authority to
its Parent, a Subsidiary of the Parent, or to a Subsidiary of the
Company for the purpose of evading the terms of this
Agreement. The Company will also not establish a third party​

leasing device to evade the terms of this agreement.

I hope this helps clear some things up. Without a lot of voteing and changes this is why there will be one list. Without one list there will be 2000 or so grevances(sp) from RAH pilots requesting the A320 pay protection for every flight hours.

 

[dougdrvr]

THIS IS HOW

D. Scope
1. This Agreement covers the company, any subsidiary of the
company, the company’s parent, any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and any future airline certificate(s) created as
a subsidiary of the company or subsidiary of the company’s
parent.
2. Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, all present and
future flying (including that international flying which originates
or terminates within the United States or its possessions) and all
charters, ferry flights (not including ferry flights of newlyacquired
aircraft prior to being placed in revenue service),
training flights, test flights, (except test flights assigned to
management), or other utilization of aircraft owned or leased by
the company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company or subsidiary of the company’s parent shall be
performed by pilots on the Chautauqua Airlines Pilots’ System
Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this
Agreement or any other applicable agreement between the
company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and the International Brotherhood of
Teamsters, Airline Division.
3. The Company, Subsidiary of the Company, the Company’s
Parent or Subsidiary of the Parent shall not establish any new
airline (alter ego or otherwise) or acquire a controlling interest in
any carrier whether directly or through the Parent or another
Subsidiary of the Parent, and maintain it as a separate carrier.
A “Controlling Interest” or “Control” means the ownership of an
equity interest representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the
outstanding capital stock of an entity or voting securities
representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the total voting
power of outstanding securities then entitled to vote generally in
the election of such entity’s board of directors or other governing
body.
4. The Company will not transfer aircraft, or operating authority to
its Parent, a Subsidiary of the Parent, or to a Subsidiary of the
Company for the purpose of evading the terms of this
Agreement. The Company will also not establish a third party​

leasing device to evade the terms of this agreement.

I hope this helps clear some things up. Without a lot of voteing and changes this is why there will be one list. Without one list there will be 2000 or so grevances(sp) from RAH pilots requesting the A320 pay protection for every flight hours.

Why does it just refer to the Chatauqua Airlines Pilot's System?

So would this go to the top of the pile of grievences or the bottom?

 

[$$$4nothin]

This refers to just Chautauqua because when it was written only Chautauqua existed. It has since been ratified to include the Republic and Shuttle America certificates due to us all being on one master seniority list.

As for your second question I am not on the Union counsel so I would not know whether or not this would go to the top or bottom of the list, but based on all the work our union is putting on this integration I would assume the top. We all know what assumeing gets us though.

 

[likeitis]

THIS IS HOW

D. Scope
1. This Agreement covers the company, any subsidiary of the
company, the company’s parent, any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and any future airline certificate(s) created as
a subsidiary of the company or subsidiary of the company’s
parent.
2. Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, all present and
future flying (including that international flying which originates
or terminates within the United States or its possessions) and all
charters, ferry flights (not including ferry flights of newlyacquired
aircraft prior to being placed in revenue service),
training flights, test flights, (except test flights assigned to
management), or other utilization of aircraft owned or leased by
the company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company or subsidiary of the company’s parent shall be
performed by pilots on the Chautauqua Airlines Pilots’ System
Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this
Agreement or any other applicable agreement between the
company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and the International Brotherhood of
Teamsters, Airline Division.
3. The Company, Subsidiary of the Company, the Company’s
Parent or Subsidiary of the Parent shall not establish any new
airline (alter ego or otherwise) or acquire a controlling interest in
any carrier whether directly or through the Parent or another
Subsidiary of the Parent, and maintain it as a separate carrier.
A “Controlling Interest” or “Control” means the ownership of an
equity interest representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the
outstanding capital stock of an entity or voting securities
representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the total voting
power of outstanding securities then entitled to vote generally in
the election of such entity’s board of directors or other governing
body.
4. The Company will not transfer aircraft, or operating authority to
its Parent, a Subsidiary of the Parent, or to a Subsidiary of the
Company for the purpose of evading the terms of this
Agreement. The Company will also not establish a third party​

leasing device to evade the terms of this agreement.

I hope this helps clear some things up. Without a lot of voteing and changes this is why there will be one list. Without one list there will be 2000 or so grevances(sp) from RAH pilots requesting the A320 pay protection for every flight hours.

Like I said before if the cult leader wants Frontier and RAH separate they will be separate. The jibberish above is sitting on Rev. Moon's desk riddled with holes provided by Ford and Harrison. The "protection" you believe this provides is false. The only protection any labor has is as in all negotiation and the power is with the person who can walk away.