Frontier Trims Flights at Milwaukee Hub as Parent Republic Hunts for Buyer

[B52GUNNER]

Because that would be a false statement. The Denver operation, and in particular, the Airbus operation IS profitable. Its been profitable for the most part since Menke reorganized it in '09. The killer to Frontier has been the the small airplanes, the E170s, the E140s, the E135s. Trying to resurrect a once great but now dead airline (Midwest) with commuter airplanes and service in their bloodbath operation in Milwaukee. The E190 held its own but didn't contribute much to the bottom line. Frontier became the airline for the unemployed ERJs and it about took them under with their horribly high CASMs. Now Frontier is cutting back to its profitable core, which is the Airbus and Denver with a whole bunch of profitable contract flying on top.


Those 145's 170's and 190's are what has kept Frontier in business for the past year and a half. Without the money siphoned off from them to keep them going it would have been gone long ago

 

[Bolo]

[/QUOTE]Those 145's 170's and 190's are what has kept Frontier in business for the past year and a half. Without the money siphoned off from them to keep them going it would have been gone long ago[/QUOTE]

Frontier has also been there to keep a bunch of pilots at RAH employed as well. Without us where would those RJ's have gone? Little hint: Desert! It goes both ways Buddy!

 

[USMC319]

Those 145's 170's and 190's are what has kept Frontier in business for the past year and a half. Without the money siphoned off from them to keep them going it would have been gone long ago

Well there seems to be some confusion on your part here. The E190s only flew under the Frontier and Midwest brands because no other airline scope would allow it otherwise. They were neither helpful nor hurtful to the F9 bottom line. The EMB 135, 140, 145, and 170s that flew under the Frontier brand were horrendous money losers for Frontier. They would have been losers at $40/bbl oil, but they became the death knell for Frontier at $100/bbl oil. They simply don't work in the LCC model. Now, if what you meant to say is; "the profits generated by RAH Fee for Departure contracts with Legacy Airlines provided the Holding Company the ability to invest in Frontier and thwart the South West Airlines purchase offer at the BK auction", then I guess I could buy that statement.

In any event, if it weren't for the Frontier business, there would have been massive furloughs at RAH's commuter airline businesses.

 

[B52GUNNER]

Haha I love it. Frontier is bankrupt. Republic buys them out of bankruptcy, and pumps massive amounts of money into it to prop it up, but Frontier is Republics Savior.

 

[USMC319]

Haha I love it. Frontier is bankrupt. Republic buys them out of bankruptcy, and pumps massive amounts of money into it to prop it up, but Frontier is Republics Savior.

I guess if you are that dense you could come to that conclussion. It requires a little higher level of thinking to understand the concepts that your CEO, the company's advisors, and the rest of the airline industry analysts are trying to explain to you. It's a much bigger picture and not as simpleton as your previous quotes imply. I suppose they don't teach that at ERAU these days.

 

[B52GUNNER]

We will see what "The big picture" turns out to be. So far it has just been providing substandard pay, and terrible work rules.

 

[Captain Morgan]

I hope your big picture and our big picture both improve substantially however having come from the opposite side of the fence I know for a fact that the 145's are a dying breed. I would have certainly fared a worse fate had I stayed on at that side of the house. Fortunately for me, everyone has this notion that everything that is said by BB is negative and is a scare tactic. While I'm sure BB plays the downturns into his favor, I've always felt that with regard to his prediction/observations of the 50 seat market, he's been right on. Everyone needs to recognize that we both benefitted from this merger in some sort of way. Frontier gained the aid they needed to exit BK and Republic needed a home for 145/170 and 190's exclusively. Unfortunately, like a Hollywood wedding, it's time to part ways.

 

[Bolo]

We will see what "The big picture" turns out to be. So far it has just been providing substandard pay, and terrible work rules.

Obviously you are talking about the RAH substandard pay and work rules? Right?

 

[USMC319]

I can tell you what the "Big Picture" looks like from my perspective. I have no illusions that Frontier pilot's will have any significant improvements in pay or benefits until we eventually become whatever it is we become when we grow up. Frontier has always provided an excellent product and service, unfortunately they have always been severely under funded. Our hope is that the divestiture by RAH will finally fix that. Maybe it will or maybe it won't. In the meantime we enjoy one of the better CBAs in the industry and our pay is on par with our peers and better than UAL and USAir at the moment.

On the CPA side of the house I am not so optimistic. The 50 seat business is dead. All the other commuter airlines are restructuring or going broke. If your new contract ends up being as good as the one you have now, I'll be surprised. It's a crappy environment to be negotiating in for sure. I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

 

[UnstableAviator]

On the CPA side of the house I am not so optimistic. The 50 seat business is dead. All the other commuter airlines are restructuring or going broke. If your new contract ends up being as good as the one you have now, I'll be surprised. It's a crappy environment to be negotiating in for sure. I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

Well, it can't really get much worse since we're already the bottom of the barrel, so to speak. For your sake at F9, I hope there is a separation and you guys get to keep on keepin' on. This whole integration, disolution/replacement of YX, and IMSL has been an awkward situation for many of us native RAH'ers.

The idea our management had of running 37-50 seaters for an LCC operation in a secondary market bloodbath is laughable. BB&Co proved their ineptness with Mokulele, and carried forth the same incompetency with F9. I think many of us here can say this whole mess has gone exactly as we knew it would; poorly.

RAH...the worst in the biz. We've closed 16 pilot bases in the last 7 years, just for an example.

 

[Wesb737fo]

Hmm.. Interesting points. Not sure what happens from here, but, the way I remember it was that after Bedford moved into MKE as a stand alone operation, his costs per seat mile was astronomical. Over 15cents per seat mile with the 35 and 50 seaters. The larger RJs began coming in and the purchase of F9 was supposed to bring costs in line with AirTran and SWA. Obviously this strategy hasn't worked. Republic was essentially two airlines, Fixed Fee and stand alone. Yes the fixed fee made money because you don't pay for gas. Stand alone lost money because it's a tough market to make money flying rjs at $100/bl oil. F9 has a tough go against SWA in Den and AAI in MKE. Small airline against the 400 lb gorilla. Maybe the best thing is for F9 is a merger with VA and/ or Spirit. Republic can go back to all fee for departure flying.

 

[embraerjetpilot]

Nope. B52 has it right...

What frontier is soon to be is just a mainline version of go jets and freedom I

 

[Captain Morgan]

Nope. B52 has it right...

What frontier is soon to be is just a mainline version of go jets and freedom I

Oh brother, nice drive by post.

 

[boomlrd]

Maybe Spirit will buy Frontier on the cheap.

 

[freightrash]

Those 145's 170's and 190's are what has kept Frontier in business for the past year and a half. Without the money siphoned off from them to keep them going it would have been gone long ago[/QUOTE]

Frontier has also been there to keep a bunch of pilots at RAH employed as well. Without us where would those RJ's have gone? Little hint: Desert! It goes both ways Buddy![/QUOTE]

no, it would have gone to PHX, PDX and SEA