Frontier secures DIP!

[Larcifer]

Pipejockey,

Your first mistake was to believe what you read in the paper. Clearly you like many of us are beyond frustrated with the degradation of our profession.

Our unions are not and have not met with management regarding the Perseus deal. Supposedly there will be talks next week. Since we have a different culture than other airlines and since our management led by example we as pilots agreed to a temporary 14.5% pay reduction. It was not without debate. We have since speculated that mgt would seek to extend that paycut. The mood of the pilot group is far less receptive than it was a few months ago.

We do not know what Perseus requires or desires in terms of concessions. Without having seen numbers it's hard to make judgements. Let's wait until we have some facts. We will see what Perseus LLC thinks a Frontier pilot is worth. Then we can talk. I agree that we should not continue to take concessions.

Regarding our rates of pay being "less than stellar" you are clearly not familiar with how we are compensated. We bring home some pretty fat paychecks. The system is set up to provide high quality of life and the ability to "work and earn" if you so choose. Many of us so choose and are rewarded with big dollars. The company is rewarded with the most cost efficient pilot group in the airline business. I'm not saying our contract is perfect. Clearly there are areas in need of improvement.

When we first approached the company years ago with how this could be achieved they were pretty skeptical. We showed them how we each could benefit and it worked. The "good will" of the pilot group is due to this set up. If the company/Perseus gets stupid with concession demands they will see it blow up in their face. That's not a threat of illegal work action by any means. Nobody here is stupid enough to play that game. It's just human nature. It's the difference between a culture of teamwork and incentive versus a culture of "the beatings will continue until morale improves."

It's that culture that has led us to provide great service and hard work. Hopefully mgt won't get stupid and blow it like most other airlines.

This cracks me up. In five years at F9 the only thing different about our pilot group is the level of naiveness. Yes F9 has been a good place to work. Scheds. are good, people are nice etc. But management is no different than anywhere else. They are here to run a business plane and simple and they will do what ever it takes to make that happen. The F9 pilot group due to lack of industry experience and failure to look at the history of this business will buy off on anything that is fed to them. F9 is no different than any other place I've worked except for the perceived working relation with management. The cockpit environment is no different than at my former carriers. As far as pay I was making less before our paycut than I was 10 yrs ago in the same position and our bennies suck! So how far are you willing to lower the bar to compensate for your lack of a back up plan or to keep your "hobbie" going? I've personally sunk to an embarrassing low level and will not be hurt a bit when this goat rope ends.

I will quit rambling now

 

[Newf Dog]

Thanks for rambling. I see you copied my post and replied before I deleted it. I'll answer your question anyway:

"So how far are you willing to lower the bar to compensate for your lack of a back up plan or to keep your "hobbie" going?"

About this far. "I got an offer I can't refuse." I have "activated the secondary." Won't miss the airline business one bit. Good luck to all. All success to F9.

 

[Larcifer]

Thanks for rambling. I see you copied my post and replied before I deleted it. I'll answer your question anyway:

"So how far are you willing to lower the bar to compensate for your lack of a back up plan or to keep your "hobbie" going?"

About this far. "I got an offer I can't refuse." I have "activated the secondary." Won't miss the airline business one bit. Good luck to all. All success to F9.

Congrats!!!!! I'll be doing the same shortly.

Never look back

 

[USMC319]

I see we have a couple of junior punks here crusading for the demise of F9 with the naive thought that it will somehow bolster the industry and thus their careers. Tell you what kids, go home and study the history of this industry and see what you come up with. Whether Frontier survives or fails or takes pay cuts or merges or whatever, it doesn't matter. You will not benefit, just like our top of industry Airbus pay (up until June) did not help you raise your salaries either. If it is capacity that you oppose, why don't you write CEO Kelly at SWA a note and tell him that he is ruining your career by not reducing capacity like the rest of the industry. Man, I can't believe the level of intelligence of some of the folks tasked with flying airliners around these days. I am not comfortable putting my family on planes piloted by the likes of greenbayfan and others on here.

 

[greenbayfan]

I see we have a couple of junior punks here crusading for the demise of F9 with the naive thought that it will somehow bolster the industry and thus their careers. Tell you what kids, go home and study the history of this industry and see what you come up with. Whether Frontier survives or fails or takes pay cuts or merges or whatever, it doesn't matter. You will not benefit, just like our top of industry Airbus pay (up until June) did not help you raise your salaries either. If it is capacity that you oppose, why don't you write CEO Kelly at SWA a note and tell him that he is ruining your career by not reducing capacity like the rest of the industry. Man, I can't believe the level of intelligence of some of the folks tasked with flying airliners around these days. I am not comfortable putting my family on planes piloted by the likes of greenbayfan and others on here.

It's called supply and demand you tool....they must not have taught economics in the Marine Corps. SWA alone is not dictating ticket prices, except maybe in market they heavily serve, like Denver, sucks to be Frontier.

 

[Newf Dog]

recent quotes from greenbayfan:

“Well let's see, they are losing $22m a month, how long do you think they will last? $75m is an extra 3.5 months....”

“Wow, that "private firm" needs to have their heads examined. They might as well throw that dough in the Patomic.”

“Enjoy your $22m a month loss.....keep holding out hope ahole.”

"it's basic math to see that even with this financing you can't last more than 8 months. With the financing, along with the $100m in cash as of the end of May, you have $175m in cash. You are losing $22m/month, that's less than 8 months….you all need to get your heads out of the sand, Frontier cannot survive."

"Ok hotshot, then please explain to me how you think Frontier can survive with an operating loss of $15m a month.....this oughta be good!"


So as it turns out F9 had an operting loss of $3.155 million in June and a net loss of $8 million. The financial statements are available online. Fuel expense will probably go up for July but look for the trend of increased revenue and lower expenses to continue. That's a dramatic turnaround. While still a loss it appears that the turnaround plan is now and will continue to be effective.

Good luck F9'ers! I hope it works out. It's been a pleasure.

Speaking of out....adios and best wishes to all.

 

[Wino]

I see we have a couple of junior punks here crusading for the demise of F9 with the naive thought that it will somehow bolster the industry and thus their careers. Tell you what kids, go home and study the history of this industry and see what you come up with. Whether Frontier survives or fails or takes pay cuts or merges or whatever, it doesn't matter. You will not benefit, just like our top of industry Airbus pay (up until June) did not help you raise your salaries either. If it is capacity that you oppose, why don't you write CEO Kelly at SWA a note and tell him that he is ruining your career by not reducing capacity like the rest of the industry. Man, I can't believe the level of intelligence of some of the folks tasked with flying airliners around these days. I am not comfortable putting my family on planes piloted by the likes of greenbayfan and others on here.

actually YOU are quite wrong about that. the late 80s were a period of bankruptcy and pattern bargaining that generally lowered pilot compensation. Once Eastern PANAM and Midway were allowed to fail and were liquidated once and for all, we went through a 10 year period where salaries rose quite dramatically.

So the continued life of the crippled airlines IS proven to hurt the rest of the airlines. Its all about pattern bargaining... The pattern that F9 is part of is not helpfull to the rest of the industry. Saving the airline is good for the very top pilots. For the junior guys its probably a net loss over the long view, and for the rest of the industry it is definately a disaster. (Good for managment though... gives THEM leverage)

Cheers
Wino

 

[USMC319]

Need to study the entire airline cycle not just the few instances in a small window.

 

[Wino]

I have since 1978. Before doesn't count because that was before deregulation. But pattern bargaining is evident thoughout.

Cheers
Wino

 

[pipejockey]

Whether Frontier survives or fails or takes pay cuts or merges or whatever, it doesn't matter.

So then why take pay cuts?? All you do is give the leaches(management) from other airlines the fuel to come looking for further concessions. They will say, LOOK LOOK!! Look at what Frontier is paying their pilots! We must level the playing field in order to compete with Frontier, so we are demanding you take an additional 15% cut on top of the 30% plus you have already taken over the past 7 years!