Frontier Jumpseat/republic

[chqflyer]

Actually, chqflyer, MANY of us *do* have a pretty good idea "about some of the demeaning working conditions over [there] in rj land."

This is a significant breakdown in *your* understanding of *our* position in this whole mess. Most of us have been there and done that. Personally, I progressed through 2 fee for departure carriers before being hired at Frontier. Yes, I worked for Jonathan Ornstein. You can't tell me much about crappy regional working conditions that I haven't already experienced first hand.

I never expected to fly an Airbus or a Boeing when I went to Mesa *without first* quitting my job, successfully interviewing for a new job, resigning my seniority, sitting reserve, etc.

I just want to keep the job I worked for. What are you looking for?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not at all interested in "stealing" your job. I've been around long enough to know the rules of play as far as career progression. 99% of the folks in rj land are simply biding their time until a better job comes along. That doesn't mean we have to be happy with being treated like crap while here. There's no shame in trying to improve ones working conditions. Ideally, once real airlines start hiring again, most regionals will go away. Where are they going to find the warm bodies to fill the seats?

 

[USMC319]

Open climb... The funny thing as that we have been working so that you guys have a job.. Not that I want your job..QUOTE]

NO. You've been working to earn a paycheck at a regional airline for services tendered. Period. Your job is fly other airline's passengers around for a fee. When you were hired at RAH, they told you how much they would pay you for each hour you worked. You agreed to that deal and signed on.

You have NOT been working to finance any corporate transaction that your holding company chose to pursue. If your precious IBT wanted an ownership stake in the company they would have negotiated that for you. But they didn't. And it appears they haven't nogotiated anything else for you either. The best they can do is claim that they stole a bunch of seniority numbers for you on a list that will soon be irrelevant.

What the company does with their corporate profits has nothing to do with you or what you think you deserve. Go out and earn your way on your own. Do it the way the rest of us did. Quit looking for a free ride. You will feel better about yourself and have a sense of accomplishment instead of shame, like you would if you took something that wasn't yours. None of us has control of our management's business decisions, so do what you can control and earn your own way in life.

 

[USMC319]

And unfortunately f9 will be in the picture...as an alter ego

Boy, are you on drugs? The things that you write are such a departure from reality that its hard to tell if you're just not very bright or if you merely have an irrational view of the industry and the world. Flying 162 seat mainline jets for a major airline would certainly be the ultimate "alter ego" to pull on a 50 seat fee for departure outfit. You're right.

 

[Toobdrvr]

I guess that should be alright since the boss man says this is only a stepping stone anyways.

99% of the folks in rj land are simply biding their time until a better job comes along.

Then it sounds like you're in agreement...

 

[chqflyer]

Then it sounds like you're in agreement...

My boss man comment was sarcasm. BB built this behemoth of an operation yet insists on running it like some fly by night south Florida operation. Well ******************** that. There really is no excuse for anyone flying passengers for a living to have to put up with such ********************ty pay and work rules. Having the manager of scheduling telling reserve pilots that they have no contractual protections because "the company owns you" is bull********************. That kind of crap is just not acceptable. It never should have been acceptable. Quite frankly, the "if you don't like it, quit" bull******************** is getting quite old too. This place should have never grown into what it's become, but there is no excuse for not trying to improve things.

 

[Farscape]

This is what I know. There is a legally binding seniority list. No one stole anything. RAH purchased Frontier and the IBT had the legal right to merge the lists. Frontier pilots are protected for 7 years. No Frontier pilot is losing there equipment or base. If I am still here in 7 years or whenever all F9 fo's have upgraded it is my legal right to bid an airbus CA position. I'm sorry if this doesn't fit the normal career progression. F9 is protected and RAH gets to pick up the leftovers when all of you get what you want. Relax and let it go.

 

[USMC319]

Fortunately for the Frontier pilots, that scenerio will never play out. But just for the sake of arguement, don't you think it would be a bit of an overstatement to say that the F9 guys would be "protected"? After seven years any FO that hadn't upgraded yet would be stagnant for the rest of his/her career and the junior half of the Captain's list would suffer a huge downgrade in QOL once the RJ guys start bidding in ahead of them. That is why the company is selling its majority interest in Frontier thus making the IMSL useless. In the name of safety and sanity it's best for everybody involved.

 

[Farscape]

If the new airbuses don't come then not every FO will upgrade in 7 years and some on the rah list will bump down native f9 pilots. Beyond allowing a staple of rah on the bottom of the seniority list the eischen award was about as good as everyone could get. I guess this all boils down to a philosophical argument. . . Was it ethically right for the IBT to insist on merging the seniority lists. It was certainly legal and those of us at rah knew we had to protect ourselves from a whipsaw hungry management. But the central question/problem that f9 pilots seem to have is that we have turned the natural career progression on its head by not letting rah management do what they wanted, resigning our positions and applying at f9 if that's what we really wanted. I really do understand that position, and I do think there is some validity to it, but our main motivation was not to take anyone's seat at f9, it was to protect our own seats. Fapa basically was asking us to give up our contractual right to merge and protect ourselves and leave them alone, thus keeping things the same at f9. I don't begrudge any f9 pilot for wanting us to stay out of their sandbox, but the potential consequences were just too high for us at rah to sit back and do nothing. I don't think the lists will be separated anytime soon. BB's attempt to sell off f9 is more of a head fake to get more concessions than a sincere attempt to offload the certificate. Even if f9 is sold, how do you separate a legally binding seniority list? I don't want to force u guys to stay here but I just don't see how you think it's going to magically dissolve if f9 is sold.

 

[SizzleChest]

there has been cases of separate ownsership and 1 seniority list before. Splitting off doesn't just go an un-do the IMSL. Besides, you have bigger things to worry about with JT coming up on deposition time in the lawsuit....

 

[Bolo]

there has been cases of separate ownsership and 1 seniority list before. Splitting off doesn't just go an un-do the IMSL. Besides, you have bigger things to worry about with JT coming up on deposition time in the lawsuit....

Don't worry we will take the Sizzle out and put Ice in front of Chest when we do go our own way. Keep dreaming RAH buddy that YOU will be in the seat of an F9 Airbus. Is that not what you wanted to get rid of us? Now your tune is changing because the inevitable is going to happen.