Frontier Culture gone bad???

[SuperLoser121]

The F9 culture appears to me to be superior in so many ways to the legacy model. Service and a positive attitude are the main thing that sets F9 apart and will lead to its continued success. The question for the leaders, both company and union is will Frontier be able to hold on to their success as the pilot/flight attendant group matures. These issues have been faced by many carriers throughout history. The last thing that we want at Air Tran, Jet Blue, or Frontier is to evolve into a place where the workers hate and mistrust one another. I wish my friends at F9 all the best, but not all union/company leaders understand that the morale of the workers can directly affect the service that said workers provide. In the end the culture path that any company takes more often than not is at the mercy of the Chief Pilot and Director of Operations, as well as the elected union officials. The battles that these men choose to fight, either for the workers or against, in the boardrooms and the crew rooms, have great impact on the day to day operations at any airline. This is not to say that the line flyer has no responsibility, if there is a problem in the front office, deal with it person to person, if not, then talk to pro standards. If after a time your grievance has not been properly addressed, then and only then take it to the Assistant Chief, and then they'll take it from there. Of course it does beg the question, are tattlers just stupid and perhaps being used as pawns, or are they looking for some kind of recognition? Remember Line Pilots, culture is your choice as well.

Southwest or Peoples Express, it's up to you.

 

[terryhfly]

nutjob, did you get tattled on for being a bad pilot? Is that why you are so bitter? Get over it already!!!

 

[sluggo]

No Big Deal??

This is actually a pretty big deal if it was you that recieved a stern call from the CP regarding a silly issue and were reprimandad...That puts a probationary pilot on the edge of their seat and puts your job in jeporidy.

You have to think twice every time you make a move, wondering if you say or do the right thing... You have no idea who the next bad guy is or who is watching you. It makes you act differently around the cool guys & the FA's, because you can't tell the good from the bad. The ball is rolling and new F9 pilots are on guard. It is too late just to say...It is taken care of and don't worry about it, because it isn't and the situation has verbal momentum...

This post wouldn't exist if the proper chain of command was followed, given 1 instance or given 500 instances. I have heard of several instances where this is occuring. It has not been corrected. This is not a slam. No, were not doing that well if this happens to you. On the outside it's no big deal, until you get the call from the CP because you were written up and now you have a letter in your file. We all make mistakes...Do you want to be narked on to the CP? Well, you just never know. Yes, this is serious and it needs to be communicated through the union to the pilots on what the proper chain is...

Just like the old interview question...What would you do if it you saw your Capt drinking in the bar 7 hours prior to your show time...@ F9, the answer is obviously call the CP and tattle tale & get rid of that guy...It this were an actual interview, you wouldn't get hired.

 

[Larcifer]

Same Sh**t different paint scheme. Wait until the pay cuts (aka pay freezes) are negotiated, then we'll see some bitching

 

[jetalc]

Jetalc, I think you're saying that because the pilot in question may have a checkered past you believe he should be fired. Is this correct? Have you considered the ramifications of your statement? Have you ever made a mistake or gone against a company policy or not followed a procedure or FAR? If so should you be fired?

Do you also think that its alright to take photos and film another pilot going through a security checkpoint in secret. This is a direct violation of TSA and airport security procedures. Should the tattle tale be fired? Please explain.

How many pilots have been fired from F-9 in the past year?

How effective is a "union" that lets this happen?

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you're talking about. There are several pilots "in question" and I've flown with quite a few that have been fired - they had a LONG history of making very costly mistakes and IMHO have no place flying at all. We're not talking about making an occasional mistake - from what I witnessed firsthand, it was a long-standing trend of rather large mistakes.

I have never gone "crying" to the Chief Pilot's office regarding another pilot, but nobody should pass judgement about why somebody else would. If a simple change in procedure or behavior is the goal, either a direct conversation with the pilot in question is in order, or a quick call to Pro Standards would be appropriate. Don't put words in my mouth.

How many pilots have been fired in the last year? I don't know - do you? I don't think it's reflective of how effective the union is - the union isn't solely there to preserve employment of those who perpetually screw up. Contract compliance is the number one job of FAPA.

The fact that this issue has been brought up on Flightinfo doesn't mean that this issue has any creedence! What a ludicrous assertion.

Nutjob - have I ever screwed you? Or any other pilot? I would be happy to address any and all situations you feel that that is the case. You screwed yourself - nobody else sabotaged your employment! Truly pathetic.

Sluggo - there is nothing to "correct."

Unbelievable that this thread has received as much attention as it has. Can you guys think of any of the pilots who has been fired where undue process was followed? Did they not have any warning? Is this the first time they've shown their incompetence? C'mon guys - get real. The Chief Pilot is an attorney - a termination that stands doesn't happen overnight, nor does it happen for one, two or even ten mistakes!

 

[ex-nutjeter]

Since you have stuped down to name calling I guess yours will be "Jeta$$wipe" it suits you perfectly, it seems that there are others that have issues as well, and yes when a pilot narks on his fellow pilot about his sleeves being rolled up or his hat not being on while doing a walk around, etc... that is a problem, and the union does nothing to stop that stuff, and also the cp is an idiot for listening to that kind of small junk, I have never worked for a company except F9 where the CP tolerates listening to small crap like that, there are more important issues to solve, people that get their rocks off on narking on others have the real issues and I guess that includes you. And for what its worth, I did not get fired as you seem to confuse me with someone else that you screwed over!!!!

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you're talking about. There are several pilots "in question" and I've flown with quite a few that have been fired - they had a LONG history of making very costly mistakes and IMHO have no place flying at all. We're not talking about making an occasional mistake - from what I witnessed firsthand, it was a long-standing trend of rather large mistakes.

I have never gone "crying" to the Chief Pilot's office regarding another pilot, but nobody should pass judgement about why somebody else would. If a simple change in procedure or behavior is the goal, either a direct conversation with the pilot in question is in order, or a quick call to Pro Standards would be appropriate. Don't put words in my mouth.

How many pilots have been fired in the last year? I don't know - do you? I don't think it's reflective of how effective the union is - the union isn't solely there to preserve employment of those who perpetually screw up. Contract compliance is the number one job of FAPA.

The fact that this issue has been brought up on Flightinfo doesn't mean that this issue has any creedence! What a ludicrous assertion.

Nutjob - have I ever screwed you? Or any other pilot? I would be happy to address any and all situations you feel that that is the case. You screwed yourself - nobody else sabotaged your employment! Truly pathetic.

Sluggo - there is nothing to "correct."

Unbelievable that this thread has received as much attention as it has. Can you guys think of any of the pilots who has been fired where undue process was followed? Did they not have any warning? Is this the first time they've shown their incompetence? C'mon guys - get real. The Chief Pilot is an attorney - a termination that stands doesn't happen overnight, nor does it happen for one, two or even ten mistakes!

 

[jetalc]

...you seem to confuse me with someone else that you screwed over!!!!

I screwed someone over? And exactly how did I do that? I would say he (or you, since your level of illiteracy is about the same - it's an easy 'mistake' to make) screwed himself over. I had nothing to do with it - I was not even in a position to do anything about it, one way or the other.

You seem like such an angry person - have you sought therapy? Are you enjoying your current job, or are you just as miserable as you made things for yourself at F9?

Look, Buttjob, everyone has their own perspective as to what makes a good company. My opinion of F9 (as well as that of MANY others) is that it is a good company that does well by both its employees as well as its customers. There's always going to be one or two or ten people who will never be happy, regardless of where they are. C'est la vie. Doesn't matter in the slightest to me, but please don't try to create chaos where it doesn't exist. F9 suits me just great, and if Frontier sticks around, I hope to retire one happy mo-fo. Your not going to rain on my parade by attacking the piddly things that don't matter - I have a life to lead, and F9 allows me to live that life VERY well.

Get over it.

 

[jetalc]

This is actually a pretty big deal if it was you that recieved a stern call from the CP regarding a silly issue and were reprimandad...That puts a probationary pilot on the edge of their seat and puts your job in jeporidy...

Point well taken, Sluggo. If people went to the CEO (as an example) every time they received a dirty look from another employee, I would have to say that is overkill, and certainly not the best way to resolve the issue. Am I to understand that pilots are going to the CP for these insignificant things? All I've heard about is the larger items...

 

[jetalc]

Since you have stuped down to name calling I guess yours will be "Jeta$$wipe" it suits you perfectly, it seems that there are others that have issues as well, and yes when a pilot narks on his fellow pilot about his sleeves being rolled up or his hat not being on while doing a walk around, etc... that is a problem, and the union does nothing to stop that stuff, and also the cp is an idiot for listening to that kind of small junk, I have never worked for a company except F9 where the CP tolerates listening to small crap like that, there are more important issues to solve, people that get their rocks off on narking on others have the real issues and I guess that includes you. And for what its worth, I did not get fired as you seem to confuse me with someone else that you screwed over!!!!

BTW:

It's "stooped" not "stuped"

It's "narcs" not "narks"

What are you, "Stuped?" :laugh:

 

[ex-nutjeter]

Again with the name calling, you seem to be the ANGRY one, not me, I am very happy were I am at, at least I don't have pilots that get their rocks off by going to the chief pilot for small stuff, stop being such an A$$wipe and get a life, F9 is not the bomb as you seem to make it, keep living in your wet dream, based on your closed minded view of things, I can see why you think things are so rosy, sounds like you need therapy, My opinion of F9 (as well as that of MANY others) is that F9 SUCKS

I screwed someone over? And exactly how did I do that? I would say he (or you, since your level of illiteracy is about the same - it's an easy 'mistake' to make) screwed himself over. I had nothing to do with it - I was not even in a position to do anything about it, one way or the other.

You seem like such an angry person - have you sought therapy? Are you enjoying your current job, or are you just as miserable as you made things for yourself at F9?

Look, Buttjob, everyone has their own perspective as to what makes a good company. My opinion of F9 (as well as that of MANY others) is that it is a good company that does well by both its employees as well as its customers. There's always going to be one or two or ten people who will never be happy, regardless of where they are. C'est la vie. Doesn't matter in the slightest to me, but please don't try to create chaos where it doesn't exist. F9 suits me just great, and if Frontier sticks around, I hope to retire one happy mo-fo. Your not going to rain on my parade by attacking the piddly things that don't matter - I have a life to lead, and F9 allows me to live that life VERY well.

Get over it.