Frontier Airlines

[billybob]

Chq,
Your out gunned, you have no idiot in you so you can't speak to the ghost. Try a picture and grunt. Rj guys respond to it better. If not dangle a new 175 and they will shut up and agree with you

 

[N1atEcon]

Their credit card company changed their required "holdback" to 100% effectively freezing any and all cash flow. Try reading a newspaper every now and then.

That is what he was saying. You (F9) all had no money/cash reserves to cover operating expense. So when the credit card company took away the passengers influx of daily cash flow you couldn't afford to put fuel in the tanks for very long. Call it what you want, be upset that the credit card company changed the rules but the fact is F9 didn't have enough cash and too much debt. Its not accounting 401 here its 5th grade math. I love the disparity between the realist F9 pilots and the drunk on kool aid primadonas.

On April 10, 2008, Frontier announced that it filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in reaction to the intent of its credit card processor, First Data, to withhold significant proceeds from ticket sales. First Data decided that it would withhold 100% of the carrier's proceeds from ticket sales beginning May 1.[13] According to Frontier's press release, "This change in practice would have represented a material change to our cash forecasts and business plan. Unchecked, it would have put severe restraints on Frontier's liquidity..." Its operation continues uninterrupted, though, as Chapter 11 bankruptcy protects the corporation's assets and allows restructuring to ensure long-term viability.

 

[Grey Ghost]

That is what he was saying. You (F9) all had no money/cash reserves to cover operating expense. So when the credit card company took away the passengers influx of daily cash flow you couldn't afford to put fuel in the tanks for very long. Call it what you want, be upset that the credit card company changed the rules but the fact is F9 didn't have enough cash and too much debt. Its not accounting 401 here its 5th grade math. I love the disparity between the realist F9 pilots and the drunk on kool aid primadonas.

On April 10, 2008, Frontier announced that it filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in reaction to the intent of its credit card processor, First Data, to withhold significant proceeds from ticket sales. First Data decided that it would withhold 100% of the carrier's proceeds from ticket sales beginning May 1.[13] According to Frontier's press release, "This change in practice would have represented a material change to our cash forecasts and business plan. Unchecked, it would have put severe restraints on Frontier's liquidity..." Its operation continues uninterrupted, though, as Chapter 11 bankruptcy protects the corporation's assets and allows restructuring to ensure long-term viability.

Does anyone hear crickets???

 

[chqflyer]

Just a small off shoot here. How in the world did you get the idea that I'm a Frontier pilot? Did you happen to not notice my handle?

 

[[email protected]]

A lot of Republic planes would of been parked if they didn't buy Frontier.

 

[arjayeffo]

RAH bought F9 when nobody else wanted them...

Not true! N1atEcon's airline put in an offer too, but we had a little too much pride to accept it. Maybe that's why he keeps hanging around here, slumming in the Frontier threads... Let it go, already.

 

[StaySeated]

=

The few remaining Midwest guys that i know are all great people! They were raised with morals, class, and a sense of decency!

I want to get this straight, you guys think that the Midwest guys came in and "stole" your 9+ years of seniority in the SLI. This was decided by a third party that doesn't give a ******************** about anyone's feelings involved.

I think we need a history review here...

First and foremost, the YX gents were welcomed with open arms by the Frontier Pilots. We didn't have anything to do with who was hired back then and we won't really have anything to do with who is hired in the future, but we did indeed welcome them. Take this excerpt from a FAPA letter to the membership in March of 2011..

"We also expect RAH to reach out to furloughed Midwest pilots to offer them positions. RAH management and FAPA are very pleased that we have an opportunity to bring some of these very experienced, professional and highly qualified pilots back on property ? and hopefully home to MKE. We do not know how many Midwest pilots will take the positions, but please join us in extended a very warm welcome to those who do."

That doesn't sound very arrogant to me but I may be a little biased.

Now, regarding the "screwing". The YX Merger Committee may be the real culprits here but I will let everyone else decide.

Here is a piece from the Midwest Custodian (and Former YX MEC member TF) to the other labor groups involved (IBT, UTU and FAPA) prior to the hiring of any YX pilots..

" Given the extremely unlikely but at least theoretical possibility that a new hire F9 pilot could be in a position that could be manipulated to an unfair advantage, I added clarifying language that would prevent that from happening. I honestly cannot see how that could happen but I wanted to cover all the bases."

Here is the language from his letter that was sent in June 2010 to Ron H at RAH...

"The pilot will not automatically be able to exercise his integrated seniority upon the arbitrator?s award becoming effective. The exercise of the pilot?s integrated (supposedly higher) seniority number will be dependent on his ability to return to active service through the operation of the award, either through recall or by any earlier right to return that may be provided by the award. In brief, a pilot hired under these terms will not simply "convert" to a higher seniority placement upon implementation of the seniority integration award. "

and

"The pilot will be considered a new-hire F9 pilot subject to all terms and conditions of the F9/FAPA agreement. "

So, from the eyes of the Frontier pilots (especially the MKE/CHI based FO's) the YX gents claimed they would act in one specific manner prior to be hired only to act completely 180 degrees differently after they were hired. I personally received a comment from an IBT ExCo member (prior to the E-Board) explaining how the YX guys "pulled a huge coup over the Frontier guys".

At the very least the YX guys are hypocrites. I don't think it is a stretch at all to claim they screwed over the Frontier guys when you compare their initial claims with their actions. Unfortunately they probably have poisoned the water to such an extent that the future hiring of YX guys may not happen. But, as you claim Grey, who would want to come little ole Frontier anyway?

Does anyone hear crickets???

Grey, you go from very loud to very quiet and vice versa at the most opportune times. Why don't you take a break from being a BK expert and go back to defending the honor of your fellow YX friends that lied and stabbed 600+ pilots in the back.

Regarding the holdback and F9's BK. Some airlines have zero holdback (Jetblue has zero holdback with visa and mc), the average holdback varies between 20 and 35%. Frontier went to 100% overnight. Meanwhile the price of crude increased from $42 per barrel to over $126 per barrel between 2007 and 2008. I know some of you love to get off on the challenges of other airlines (along with their pilots), but there isn't an airline on the planet that could have survived a 100% holdback along with the parabolic escalation of oil prices in 2008.

That may be why the spring of 2008 saw the demise of aloha, champion, ata, skybus, eos and gemini. These airlines didn't reorganize, they ceased to exist.

There have been 23 Airline Ch.11 and Ch. 7 BK's since 2008. Frontier is one of the few that remain in operation. Keep kicking us while we are down. I think we are starting to like it.

 

[Grey Ghost]

Grey, you go from very loud to very quiet and vice versa at the most opportune times. Why don't you take a break from being a BK expert and go back to defending the honor of your fellow YX friends that lied and stabbed 600+ pilots in the back.

Regarding the holdback and F9's BK. Some airlines have zero holdback (Jetblue has zero holdback with visa and mc), the average holdback varies between 20 and 35%. Frontier went to 100% overnight. Meanwhile the price of crude increased from $42 per barrel to over $126 per barrel between 2007 and 2008. I know some of you love to get off on the challenges of other airlines (along with their pilots), but there isn't an airline on the planet that could have survived a 100% holdback along with the parabolic escalation of oil prices in 2008.

That may be why the spring of 2008 saw the demise of aloha, champion, ata, skybus, eos and gemini. These airlines didn't reorganize, they ceased to exist.

There have been 23 Airline Ch.11 and Ch. 7 BK's since 2008. Frontier is one of the few that remain in operation. Keep kicking us while we are down. I think we are starting to like it.

The ONLY reason you are still around at all is because RAH has blown over $300 Million dollars in the last 3 years on your pathetic operation trying to offload you onto the next sucker! I guess when you are so desparate to hang on to your current job, you will believe anything that management has to tell you? Keep sipping from that pitcher of ice cold Kool-aid that BB has to offer!!!! NOBODY serves it colder or fresher than him! :beer:
I'm not sure why you guys always take it as a personal attack against the pilot group, its just that you NEVER should've trusted RAH management in the first place! Plain and simple!

 

[Captain Morgan]

You used us and we used you, thats all there is to it. Now it's time to part ways...

 

[Cornelius]

First Data's 100% holdback is common when a company's balance sheet and cash flows start looking like a piece of crap. Frontier's bankruptcy was inevitable the way we were operating.

Frontier was making money in bankruptcy and Bedford had too much to lose so he bought us unfortunately. I believe we would have found another buyer if Bedford didn't already own a bunch of our debt.

As for Grey Ghost, you sound like a bitter old man who should retire or find another line of work. Every airline has em including F9.