Friendly request...especially to new grnd controllers

[LazyLightnin']

Seriously, what's up with these retarded controllers?

-"Ready to taxi with Mike"

-"Ok,via Alpha taxi to 3-4.....and advise you have information Mike"

Yes mo-ron.. I done told you once!

Never fails.

 

[Cat3C]

Approach guys do it as well - just a habit I guess

 

[LR60BOY]

Post Deleted

 

[RCA]

"While we're airing more peeves: here is one about other pilots on the radio (as I said..i have many about other pilots):
--Pilot entering pattern at uncontrolled field:
-"XYZ traffic, Cessna N1234A inbound on 45, left traffic, Rwy 30; XYZ traffic"
-"XYz trraffic, Cessna N1234A on left downwind, Rwy 30; xyz traffic"
-"XYZ traffic, Cessna N1234A on left base, Rwy 30; xyz traffic"
-"XYZ traffic, Cessna N1234A on final, Rwy 30; XYZ traffic"

..Nothing wrong with the above, correct?? Definitely got the AIM-recommended full call sign in there 4 times...(and rope for FAA to hang you with on the recorded freq if you accidentally clip a rwy light or something)

IMHO... who gives a SH!t what your bloody tail # is?!! If I am close enough to read your #s; we have perhaps both made a series of gross procedural nav and/or comm errors worthy of evasive maneuvers. (hint..there is a reason why they ask for the colors of the airplane when you file a flt plan-- the tail # is just so the search team on the ground can confirm the wreckage is your bird//another hint..when ATC calls taffic to you under radar service-- they typically say "cessna skyhawk", not "Cessna N1234A").
As you'd guess by now, the information that IS helpful to me, however, is your position (of course) and what TYPE of Cessna you are. Citation, Caravan, C-150, C172...what? When I do fly GA, it is often with buddies in their planes and they are guilty of this also.. and I make my point (and suggestion) subtly. It is almost always well-recieved. This is a pet peeve that is actually rooted in safety; not just efficiency on the radio.[/QUOTE]



I disagree for several reasons. First off the reason you file a flight plan with a tail number is so ATC knows who you are. Do you open your flight plan by saying "Center, green and white Cessna off ABC IFR to XYZ"? Second, having instructed at a school where we had 5 172's all painted the same colors with often several in the pattern at the same time how else could you differentiate who is who? Third, I have never in my life heard a Citation, Caravan, Conquest, etc driver call himself a Cessna. As far as a differentiating between a 172, 152, 182, who cares. They are all slow with one engine and a wing on top. From half a mile away you can hardly tell one from the other. Lastly using your call sign with each tx is a good habit that folds right into ATC procedures.

Just my .02[/QUOTE]

My Thoughts exactly.
It's type and call sign. Truckers using a CB differentiate themselves as Black Kenworth or nice looking Red Peterbilt. If you want to bust your flying buddies balls (must be fun to hang with) hav them make initial contact with Gulfstream 1234XZ with subsequent calls made as Gulfstream 4XZ.

 

[Cat3C]

so much stress in this business

 

[booo]

Here's a typical (as in EVERY time) exchange when I call for taxi from my home (Class D) airport:

ME: "XXX ground, Skyhawk N1234A, ready to taxi from A2 hangars and copy IFR clearance to KXYZ with ATIS Z".

GRND: "Skyhawk 34A, advise ready to copy clearance."

ME:"Skyhawk 34A, ready to copy"

GRND: "Skyhawk 34A, cleared to ........"

ME; "(My readback)"

GRND: "Skyhawk 34A, readback correct. Advise ready to taxi"

ME: "Skyhawk 34A, ready to taxi"

GRND: "Skyhawk 34A,...(taxi clearance)".

ME: "(my readback)"

GRND: "Skyhawk 34A, verify you have ATIS Zulu"

ME: "Yes, I gave you Zulu"

... Like I said, that is the exchange about 99% of the time. If you read/listen to my initial call, I give you all the info to only necessitate ONE transmission from you and only ONE reply from me on the radio (taxi clnc and IFR clnc).

Due to either not listening to me, or some sort of ATC regs (which I'm unaware of), the GRND controllers at my field seem to insist upon causing 11 radio transmissions ...when only 3 are really necessary.

Seriously; I'm biting my tongue EVERY time (in the interest of ATC/pilot relations..and not aggravating you guys). When asked "advise ready to copy... ready to taxi" ..I feel like saying "I did on my initial call!!"

When the field is slow, it's not as annoying. --but when I know that there are several other a/c trying to get a word in, it's frustrating--for me and them.

I guess my point is: just listen up to that first call and assume that we can walk and chew gum at the same time (as in write a short clearance down while taxiing).

You at ATC all do a GREAT job overall, this is just a minor pet peave that has been building over years.

Thx again!! ..& let's keep each other safe..


PS- another radio peave of mine can be directed at fellow pilots:
ex: (while enroute under radio contact/radar svc): "XXX Center, N1234A"
Center: "N1234A, go ahead"
....communications brevity is a virtue, folks!! just say spit it all out.. (IMHO)

WOW! What a thread! And I have so many observations that apply, for both sides! (Pilots vs. Controllers). Let's take one at a time, starting with this one.
(Retired pilot with 30 years experience).

I was always taught that you never give a pilot more than three items at a time, two is better. Yet in your example you don't give the controller the same courtesy. Out of the blue you give him 1. who you are (new to him), 2. where you are (okay), 3. Some of what you want: "I'm ready to taxi" (okay, but now he's looking for the most expeditious means of complying with your request when you continue), 4. More of what you want: "(ready to) copy IFR clearance to KXYZ" (now he has to locate your strip and verify that it is the only destination you filed, and latest and greatest version of your clearance, and he has to verify if it is a good time to issue it-you are taxiing! Part 121 pilots are subject to a violation (sterile cockpit) unless it's a reroute, and they have TWO qualified pilots onboard. 5. At this point, he doesn't care WHAT ATIS you have! He does need to verify that you have the current one, but he also needs to verify what's current and you have him scrambling all over the place already.

And all in Class D? Ever wonder if he is also working Tower frequency at the same time?


As for your PS: I've heard it go both ways, usually after a long period of silence from one or the other party. Equivalent to saying in a dark room "Hello?" "...communications brevity is a virtue, folks!" Can they be briefer? What do you want? "Center, N123A, forgive me for I may have sinned. It has been 20 minutes since my last contact with you and fear that I have lost contact with ATC and just want to see if you still care about me or have I missed a hand off considering that I am now at 10,000 feet over my destination and would like to descend."

Grow up, then STFU.

Controllers 1, pilot 0.

 

[booo]

I have 1000000000 pet peeves about pilots, but I keep them to myself.

Good! The system has flaws. WE (Pilots) never share them with you either!

No points for either side.

 

[booo]

I bet you like this one.
Weather cavu for 200nm.

"N123 do you have the weather at kabc?" hint 1
"Roger"
"N123 expect the visual at kabc, advise the field in sight." hint 2
(sometimes they will ask what approach you want, pilot answers 'the visual')
"N123 has the field in sight" 3rd opportunity
"N123, cleared for the visual, report cancellation to zzz center or yyy flight service, change to advisory, no traffic observed between you and kabc."
The immediate response is invariably,
"N123 we'd like to cancel ifr"
Auuuugggghhh! After all that?!?!
Just cancel well out, or at least warn atc you are going to cancel as soon as you have the field! It shortens the whole transaction by about 100 words!
(those who must maintain ifr flight plan to the ground, for company policy or faa requirement nothwithstanding)

From your profile I assume your a pilot:none the less....

Hint 1: Of course I do, I got it 100 miles out, I'm a professional. Unless there is an immediate update that needs my attention (earthquake, fog rolling in, disabled aircraft, etc.) Roger is not a response..I have information Zulu is. But ATC is required this communication, and so are we . Remember "Assume".

Hint 2: I'll do that. There may be several reasons that I can not at this time call the airport in site, least of which is I now have had the Descent Checklist interrupted twice now and haven't verified that WE, not just me, but the new F/O , have it in site.

3rd opportunity: Nope, they requested that I (we) have it in site. So we did.
And we a required to post that info to ATC per our Ops Manual before we cancel.
Your technique reads "Slacker!"

 

[booo]

Clearance, N1234a to KXYZ with information "A".

N1234a cleared to KXYZ airport as filed, do you have "A"?

....................HUH?

Try two things, not three or more on initial contact.

 

[booo]

Coordinators asking if you have ATIS after reporting that you have ATIS is happening at alot of airports and not just class D airports. We have just stopped reporting ATIS on initial call because we are just repeating ourselves when the coordinators ask about ATIS.

OOOH! This guy hit a nerve!

But seriously, he has a point. Just what do you "controllers" control?

This is not flame bait. I want to know what you "control" vs. "coordinate"?

 

[AC560]

"N123 has the field in sight" 3rd opportunity

I would go "N123 has the field in sight and would like to cancel IFR at this time". While you may not think pilots (and you appear to be one as well) appreciate controllers staying IFR as long as I can ensures if 20 miles out and 3000 AGL and the motor quits on a single somebody is going to roll equipment in the odd chance I live. Also coming into an uncontrolled field as IFR I am going to get some traffic advisories which is useful especially if I am not familiar with the field/area.

Just is a lot safer from my perspective to hold onto the controller till things are all sewn up. I for one like big brother watching.

 

[acaTerry]

Oh...If I had a nickel for every time I heard that exchange; and each time i feel for the controller! Personally, if the controller even asks me if I "have the airport in sight"(ie 1st hint).. I'm embarrased. Sometimes, however, (especially unfamiliar airport)..I REALLY don't have the airport in sight till <10mi. out.
..And believe me: radio pet peeves are not limited to controllers...I have more about my fellow pilots than ATC. This just happens to be the ATC board on FI.

Again, my whole point is that in many cases (pilots and ATC) seem to create too many unneccesary radio exchanges while others are waiting to get a word in. And glasspilot: I'm ready to copy a clearance when I say I am on the radio. Often I have very capable (literate) person aboard with me who loves to do something...like copy a clearance. Not trying to start and argument..just make a point: how many times at busy (ie class B) airports does ground -while you are taxiing- give you a reroute, or even tell you to go to clnc delivery to get an ammended clnc?? I've seen this happen fairly often...including to single-pilot freight pilots.

While we're airing more peeves: here is one about other pilots on the radio (as I said..i have many about other pilots):
--Pilot entering pattern at uncontrolled field:
-"XYZ traffic, Cessna N1234A inbound on 45, left traffic, Rwy 30; XYZ traffic"
-"XYz trraffic, Cessna N1234A on left downwind, Rwy 30; xyz traffic"
-"XYZ traffic, Cessna N1234A on left base, Rwy 30; xyz traffic"
-"XYZ traffic, Cessna N1234A on final, Rwy 30; XYZ traffic"

..Nothing wrong with the above, correct?? Definitely got the AIM-recommended full call sign in there 4 times...(and rope for FAA to hang you with on the recorded freq if you accidentally clip a rwy light or something)

IMHO... who gives a SH!t what your bloody tail # is?!! If I am close enough to read your #s; we have perhaps both made a series of gross procedural nav and/or comm errors worthy of evasive maneuvers. (hint..there is a reason why they ask for the colors of the airplane when you file a flt plan-- the tail # is just so the search team on the ground can confirm the wreckage is your bird//another hint..when ATC calls taffic to you under radar service-- they typically say "cessna skyhawk", not "Cessna N1234A").
As you'd guess by now, the information that IS helpful to me, however, is your position (of course) and what TYPE of Cessna you are. Citation, Caravan, C-150, C172...what? When I do fly GA, it is often with buddies in their planes and they are guilty of this also.. and I make my point (and suggestion) subtly. It is almost always well-recieved. This is a pet peeve that is actually rooted in safety; not just efficiency on the radio.

I'll tell you who gives a #%$#*&! about your tail number. I DO. Because after you misreport where you are and I can't find you, I can then call you to ask where you REALLY are.
Also, FSS cares what your callsign is. GAWD!!! How many f-ing times have I answered the phone at the FBO I used to work at and get asked if I'd seen or heard from aircraft N1234A because he is overdue and did not close the flight plan. And yes, because they were using their callsign in their transmissions I was able to say "yes, he's on the ground, I was with him in the pattern".
You guys kill me. You are SO F_ING good that you have room to nitpick at everyone else.
You want to know what drives ME crazy? Getting the PDC from the ACARS and it is so jumbled and out of standard format that I have to page through the thing 3 or 4 times just to make sure it's all there.

 

[say again]

I'll tell you who gives a #%$#*&! about your tail number. I DO. Because after you misreport where you are and I can't find you, I can then call you to ask where you REALLY are.
Also, FSS cares what your callsign is. GAWD!!! How many f-ing times have I answered the phone at the FBO I used to work at and get asked if I'd seen or heard from aircraft N1234A because he is overdue and did not close the flight plan. And yes, because they were using their callsign in their transmissions I was able to say "yes, he's on the ground, I was with him in the pattern".
You guys kill me. You are SO F_ING good that you have room to nitpick at everyone else.
You want to know what drives ME crazy? Getting the PDC from the ACARS and it is so jumbled and out of standard format that I have to page through the thing 3 or 4 times just to make sure it's all there.

Wow, how is your blood pressure?!?! You sound like a real joy. Get over yourself Joe "Saving the Day" Pilot. :laugh:

"Windcheck"