Friday Afternoon Breaking News- Dallas

[DH2WN]

Good advice for SWA. If YOU cant compete in earnest after 30 years and go to DFW, or if you have to have your competition removed from your airport AGAIN after 30 years, YOU should be forced to fold up.

IAD did it in the face of DCA and DCA restrictions were promptly abolished. I guess DFW and AA are just a little to stupid to make their citiy/company work after 30 years.

 

[Flopgut]

Airlines have never suffered under a "fair" system of competition. Each and every one has tried to exploit some advantage. Some have been fined by the government for these practices and moved in/lost money to kill off competition.

In SWA's case they did it all while making money with a whole new way of scheduling. No hub and spoke (I know, I preach to the choir). SWA's competition was and is often the car. If the passenger wants the legacy product they will go out and purchase it. If they want the fall of Siagon boarding process to ride in the clown car, they will go for that. It's that simple.

The legacy hub and spoke system has NEVER been the most cost effective way to fly. And they prove that they don't care about passenger sticker shock when they jack up fares for last minute travel or thin markets. You may find this hard to believe but I meet passengers commuting that fly SWA becuase they are cheap and hate getting gouged. People who can afford expensive travel almost monthly and appreciate good customer service. Some like SWA customer service. Some think it could be better but like the price and "fair" way they are treated. A consistency of product that meets their minimum standard. They are a step below the NetJet crowd. The legacies need to learn customer service starts with the ticket pricing system. Where do the legacies fit in all this????

So, going forward, which way of running a business do you think will prove most durable? While some legacy airlines may have periods of advantage over others and have growth spurts I think it is smartest to go with an airline that has a permanent advantage and has a good chance of continuing to exploit it.



You can argue about this Love Field vs. DFW (or whatever you want to call it) but it is only a small piece of the puzzle now. You want what is fair? It's not about fair. It's about what is accepted and encouraged in our economy.

OK, Fair is a bad word. What I'm trying to say is that we have crazy things happening on both sides of this issue and that needs to stop. We need a nice, calm period of "business as usual" for all. Going forward, If SWA stops getting nice, fat slow-pitch balls over the plate, and legacies can stop being beaned with fastballs and then beaten with the bat, we'll learn what our indutry's future is in this economy. Obviously, we've got some competition for you, there is a lot that differentiates our operations. J3 Cub Capts' wife is buying a pretty expensive ticket for certain. BUT, what if we close that up a little? Say SWA loses on the WA and that $700 goes up to $1000, simultaneously, his wifes' company gets a little more disciplined about scheduling business and finds a fare for $1400. AA can put her in first class, feed her, and get her there refreshed ready to go. Additionally, buy that AA ticket 10 times and she and the Cub Capt. are going to Rio! That will begin to matter again, hopefully soon.

The latest news on this is pretty interesting. A lopsided win for SWA is not exactly a lock. I think people see what you did in Denver and are taking a closer look. Frontier uses the premier airport, put together a superior LCC product and offered low fares. Now you want back in the Denver game and folks are wondering what the deal is with Dallas? Why does your Dallas operation HAVE to be something so unique? WHY does it have to be something that, not only enormously advantages you, but at the same time puts so many others in jeaprody for you to be happy? It's wearing thin.

I believe you when you say you want everyone's career to improve. I'm appreciative and feel the same about your career. We all need to make some dough.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

I think people see what you did in Denver and are taking a closer look. Frontier uses the premier airport, put together a superior LCC product and offered low fares. Now you want back in the Denver game and folks are wondering what the deal is with Dallas?

What is it that peole see that SWA did in DEN? So far, DEN has been an outstanding operation for SWA in terms of the numbers of people flying. And, since prices have been lowered by the competition, numbers of people traveling out of DEN has also increased for UAL and Frontier....a rising tide lifts all the boats....best of all, SWA is profitable out of DEN.

Where I live, folks are "wondering what the deal is with Dallas", but only in the context of getting rid of the Wright (Wrong) Amendment. What are they saying where you live?

Anyway....moot points because the Mayors of Dallas and Ft. Worth have called a press conference for noon today at the DFW airport. Seems the CEO's of both SWA and AA will be there at that press conference so I guess you can see what that means....This arguement will be null and void....noon today....null...and ...void...over and done with....basta....gone....fini....

Tejas

 

[Dangerkitty]

Anyway....moot points because the Mayors of Dallas and Ft. Worth have called a press conference for noon today at the DFW airport. Seems the CEO's of both SWA and AA will be there at that press conference so I guess you can see what that means....This arguement will be null and void....noon today....null...and ...void...over and done with....basta....gone....fini....

Why couldn't the news conference be at Dallas Love?

 

[The Prussian]

...This arguement will be null and void....noon today....null...and ...void...over and done with....basta....gone....fini..Tejas

Tejas....I agree with everything in your above post except this last statement. My feeling is that once the press conference is held, things could become very testy, as AMR and Southwest air their views about this "compromise" and then congressmen weigh in. This "compromise" is more than likely way off center with respect to where the two airlines themselves would end up in their own negotiations. Time to kick back and watch the fireworks. We'll see...

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Tejas....I agree with everything in your above post except this last statement. My feeling is that once the press conference is held, things could become very testy, as AMR and Southwest air their views about this "compromise" and then congressmen weigh in. This "compromise" is more than likely way off center with respect to where the two airlines themselves would end up in their own negotiations. Time to kick back and watch the fireworks. We'll see...

I have to agree with you to a point. Since both Airlines are sending representatives to the press conference, one would think that this would indicate that they are OK with the deal...if not, why even show up? Senator KBHutchison has already indicated she is onboard with this compromise and will get it through the regulatory hurdles in D.C.

If SWA and AMR air their views, it will most liekly be through back channels to their reps in D.C.

However, in listening to some of the local radio talk shows during my morning run, it is very apparent that the public wants this law gone...now. They want more travel opportunities. The radio talk show hosts I listened to were already asking for the N. Texas delegation in D.C. to step up and get rid of the amendment in total in one fell swoop.

This is an issue of competition free of government interference, and pro-consumer in that it will lower fares and allow for more people to fly in and out of the DFW area. Washington should never be in the business of telling businsess where and how they should operate.

Tejas

 

[Flopgut]

Flopgut, you're amazingly ignorant, obfuscate the facts or just a plain ole' liar.

I live in the Dallas area, grew up there, I've followed this stuff for the last 15+ years, and I have 1st hand knowledge of what I speak. Let's leave it at that.

It's pointless to argue with you, so I won't. Life's too short.

Wow, 15 whole years huh? You must know everything. Lets leave it at that.

 

[GuppyWN]

Please see the following message from Colleen about the Wright Amendment:

Just in time for the celebration of our 35th Anniversary, the cities of Dallas and Fort Worth, DFW Airport, American Airlines and Southwest Airlines, participated in a historic and precedent-setting announcement to settle, by mutual agreement, the battle over the Wright Amendment. Dallas Mayor Laura Miller and Fort Worth Mayor Mike Moncrief hosted a press conference today, which included Herb Kelleher and Gary Kelly from Southwest Airlines.

The settlement, once implemented, as it must be, by the U.S. Congress, will permit Customers to fly from Dallas to markets beyond those currently allowed under the Wright Amendment on direct and connecting flights on a single ticket. This will generate new revenue and improve upon our Legendary Customer Service.

Moreover, for the first time since 1968, when Dallas and Fort Worth agreed to build DFW, the cities of Dallas and Fort Worth, DFW Airport, and American Airlines, by this settlement agreement, formally acknowledge the right for Love Field to exist as an airport and for Southwest Airlines to serve Love Field. This important development provides Southwest with the opportunity to grow and reinvest in our hometown airport, enhancing the growth prospects for our Dallas-based Employees, while benefiting the job security of all Southwest Employees. Metroplex Customers will save tens of millions of dollars on airfare.

Under the agreement, Southwest will be able to grow beyond the 14 gates currently in use, with assured access to at least 16 gates. The airport, overall, will be limited to 20 gates.

Perhaps most importantly, Southwest will be able to plan on the absolute certainty that the Wright Amendment, in place since 1979, will be completely removed in eight years, setting Love free and giving Southwest's Customers and Employees the Freedom to move about our great country on a totally unrestricted basis.

I want to personally thank each and every one of you who has rallied behind our Company in the fight to Set Love Free. Many of you have worked tirelessly to ensure that our voices have been heard, and today, I am proud to say your efforts have paid off!

LUV,
Colleen

If we were willing to avoid nonstop flights for 8 years then the thru ticketing must be a huge deal. I trust Mr. Kelly. Full speed ahead.

Gup

 

[Flopgut]

I like what I've read about it so far. Let's pass it, and then stick to it.

 

[GuppyWN]

So Flop, in eight years it won't be discrimination for us to have a monopoly at DAL? Pick a horse brother and ride it.

The amendment is wrong - plain and simple. All this does is give AA 8 years to tout the "only nonstop from Dallas." BTW. I'll give AA one week after this pig is ratified to announce they are leaving DAL - once again.

Gup

 

[Flopgut]

Guppy: This is a compromise. That means neither side got exactly what they wanted. From there it is up to reasonable people to abide by it. This is the second accord reached on Love Field, your outfit is the one that squirmed out of deal number one. Everybody else was fine with it. You pick a horse.

I want to hear some more on this, but a permanent max gate number of 20, 8 years of "WA like" restrictions for other interested parties to prepare...I like it. I think it's a pretty clean deal. I'm ready to go back to liking SWA pilots.

 

[Flopgut]

Again, It looks like a good deal:


Cities agree on Wright repeal

Dallas Business Journal - 2:34 PM CDT Thursday
by Margaret Allen
Staff Writer


The mayors of Dallas and Fort Worth unveiled an agreement Thursday that would lift all Wright Amendment restrictions at Dallas Love Field after eight years.
Representatives of Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV), based at Love, and American Airlines (NYSE: AMR), based in Fort Worth at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport, attended the announcement and signed the agreement during a Thursday afternoon news conference at the Grand Hyatt Hotel at D/FW Airport.
The Wright Amendment limits flights from Dallas Love Field to a few surrounding states. Love Field is the base for low-fare carrier Southwest Airlines, which has been fighting to repeal the flight restrictions.
The compromise announced Thursday allows "through ticketing" to all 50 states for Southwest, but would eventually cap the total number of gates available at Love Field at 20.
Under the deal, Southwest would be giving up control of eight gates. Southwest would get 16 gates, while American and Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL) would get two apiece.
The pact also provides for $150 million-$200 million in upgrades at city-owned Love Field, including a new main terminal, a restaurant and improvements to the airport's entrances and exits. The figure includes retirement of old debt and the possible purchase and demolition by the city of Dallas of the former Legend Airlines terminal. The Legend terminal is privately held.
The upgrades would also include a "people mover" to a Dallas Area Rapid Transit station. The improvements would be paid for with new landing fees and a passenger facility charge.
The deal also bans international flights from Love -- both nonstop or through connecting service. International flights would only be allowed from D/FW.
During the eight years until Wright is repealed, no new passenger flights to states beyond the Wright Amendment-restricted area would be allowed from Love Field or from any airports within an 80-mile radius of Love, except D/FW.
All sides said they would oppose attempts by other states to modify the Wright Amendment. And all parties must agree in order to modify any portion of the agreement.
Everyone made a sacrifice, but worked together to come up with a solution to the Wright debate, officials said.
"The only victor, the only sure-fire winner from this agreement, is the public," said Herb Kelleher, chairman of Southwest, who said he was pleased with the outcome.
D/FW Airport's Jeff Fegan said, "This agreement, I believe, will eliminate a great uncertainty that has plagued our airport over the years." Fegan is CEO of D/FW.
American's Dan Garton, executive vice president of marketing, said the agreement was in the best interest of American and the community and should allow employees to move forward and concentrate on its financial turnaround and customer service. Gerard Arpey, president, chairman and CEO of American, was out of town and did not attend the news conference.
Offiials said they came to an agreement during talks that included both airlines Wednesday night at the Omni Mandalay Hotel in Irving.
The Dallas City Council is to vote on the resolution on June 28, and Fort Worth is to vote at its Tuesday meeting.
Officials said that through-ticketing for Southwest could would start with the passage of a bill through Congress.
The agreement takes place only if Congress passes legislation amending Wright. If Congress doesn't do anything by the end of the year, the pact expires unless the parties agree to extend it.

 

[canyonblue]

I sure am glad Flopguts airline is doing so well, that his biggest concern is an issue involving American and Southwest. Maybe it's time to revive CALlite?uke:

 

[canyonblue]

I'm ready to go back to liking SWA pilots.

We don't care.uke:

 

[slaquer5]

. I'm ready to go back to liking SWA pilots.

Dont do use any favors, Lets just keep it the way it has been.: )

 

[SWA/FO]

I think its bull$hit! I say 3 years tops, AA gets the hell out of DAL.. and we get all but 4 gates.

 

[Flopgut]

You guys are tools. This is not that bad a compromise. Hopefully, you guys won't be trying to get Congress to tweak it.

You SWA types ought to try living with HALF the crap legacies have in the last 5 years.

 

[SWA/FO]

poor legacies...made their own bed, now they are having a hard time sleeping in it. Their "model" needs tweaking and its all our fault.

I hope congress tweaks it all over the place.

 

[Flopgut]

Welch on this deal, or get it messed with, I think you'll regret it. The tide is turning? Screw with this deal and it will!

My favorite part: The eighty mile arc around DFW freezing you out of moving to another Dallas area airport. They've realized it aint low fares or some attachment to Love Field, SWA just wants to screw up the process.

 

[Dangerkitty]

My favorite part: The eighty mile arc around DFW freezing you out of moving to another Dallas area airport. They've realized it aint low fares or some attachment to Love Field, SWA just wants to screw up the process.

I hate to tell you this Flopgut but you are dead wrong. And this is coming from me; a furloughed pilot from AA.

SWA wants DAL and nothing else in the Metroplex. Why? Because they are more interested in providing their pax a quick and easy trip to downtown Dallas from Love field.

Sorry bud, but you totally stuck your foot in your mouth with that last statement.

 

[Flopgut]

I hate to tell you this Flopgut but you are dead wrong. And this is coming from me; a furloughed pilot from AA.

SWA wants DAL and nothing else in the Metroplex. Why? Because they are more interested in providing their pax a quick and easy trip to downtown Dallas from Love field.

Sorry bud, but you totally stuck your foot in your mouth with that last statement.

Then why the eighty mile arc? You think they weren't tuned in to what SWA threatened to do in Seattle? They know the SWA modus operandi. They would have gone to Addison or even Northwest Regional, or maybe even built their own airport. The agreement is well written, I hope it becomes law.

 

[scoreboard]

The agreement is well written, I hope it becomes law.

Interesting wording in the agreement. So, do you have to land at an intermediate airport if 137 pax are through ticketed to a second airport? Probably not. Sounds like a loophole you could drive a truck er 737-700 through.

 

[SWA/FO]

Its just a click and paste...nothing else, relax sweetheart!

June 15, 2006

Dallas and Fort Worth announce agreement that includes thru-ticketing
out of Dallas Love Field.

Southwest would gain immediate through-ticketing from a
newly-renovated Love Field but would remain under Wright Amendment restrictions
until 2015 under a compromise proposal that Chairman Herb Kelleher signed
today along with Dallas and Fort Worth mayors, American Airlines and DFW
Airport.
"No doubt we'd all like to have the restrictions lifted much sooner
than later," SWAPA President, Capt. Ike Eichelkraut, said. "But like many
business moves that the Company has made during its 35-year history, I
have confidence that the long-term view is being considered with this
compromise."

The agreement calls for all parties to aggressively lobby Congress
for speedy passage of the locally-agreed terms. If Congress fails to
act by Dec. 31, the deal is off unless all parties agree to extend. If
Congress alters the local proposal and repeals any Wright restrictions
sooner than 2015, Southwest agrees to give up rights to all but eight
gates. Currently Southwest operates out of 14 gates.

The proposal also calls for Dallas City Council to amend the Love Field
Master Plan to limit the number of gates to 20 instead of the current
32-gate maximum. After four years, Southwest would keep rights to 16
gates instead of the 21 it currently owns; American would keep two of the
three gates it currently owns; and Continental would keep the two gates
it currently owns.

"We know that this compromise falls short of what Southwest - and our
pilots - wanted in order to sustain our growth within a tough,
competitive market," SWAPA Vice President, Capt. Carl Kuwitzky, said. "But as
pilots and as a union we will do whatever it takes to support the
Company's position in this compromise and make sure that Southwest has an
opportunity to thrive and not just survive."

 

[Flopgut]

Frankly, it makes me think: was going to DFW that bad? SWA could do anything they want from DFW. You guys could order 50 triple 7s or all the Airbus 380s you could stand (are going ever cheaper) and go anywhere, do anything, you want.

But, that's been the point all along and that's why the agreement is the way it is. It's not overly bad for AA/DFW, it's not overly good for SWA. You guys aren't taking it that well cause you aren't use to anything not favorably lopsided.

 

[Dangerkitty]

Then why the eighty mile arc? You think they weren't tuned in to what SWA threatened to do in Seattle? They know the SWA modus operandi. They would have gone to Addison or even Northwest Regional, or maybe even built their own airport. The agreement is well written, I hope it becomes law.

I dont know and could care less about Seattle. But I do know Dallas and the fact that SWA was founded at Love field and the fact that their headquarters is there would lead me to believe that they do not and will not go anywhere else in the Metroplex.

It really isn't all that difficult to understand why they are doing this.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

This system has a history. The SWA corrective action: Remove/replace competition.

I don't understand....SWA has never been part of a decision to remove/replace competition. Now, the competition has in the past, made their own choice to not compete or leave a certain market altogether...but to the best of my knowledge, Herb never had a say in those decisions.

In many cases, SWA flies the same type airplanes, to the same destinations...why some chose to not compete is their own choice, not SWA's

Tejas

 

[arthompson]

I think the plan is good for SWA, AA and CO and shuts out any additional competition<sp?> from DAL. Great job. </sarcasm>

 

[Flopgut]

I don't understand....SWA has never been part of a decision to remove/replace competition. Now, the competition has in the past, made their own choice to not compete or leave a certain market altogether...but to the best of my knowledge, Herb never had a say in those decisions.

In many cases, SWA flies the same type airplanes, to the same destinations...why some chose to not compete is their own choice, not SWA's

Tejas

Yes, SWA has. I get a bunch of crap for not being able to cut and paste some documented proof here, but it's no less true. I fly with a large number of Braniff guys with first hand accounts.

DFW opened and the only carrier who stayed at Love was SWA. Braniff went back to Love and matched SWA on every leg and every fare. SWA was not going to last long, so Herb had Braniff removed.

If you know a Braniff guy, ask him. I'm talking a real Braniff guy, not Braniff 2 or 3. Ask one who worked for Harding Lawrence.

I really want to stop talking about this, let's keep the story straight and move on. Good agreement, let's get it done.

 

[Flopgut]

I dont know and could care less about Seattle. But I do know Dallas and the fact that SWA was founded at Love field and the fact that their headquarters is there would lead me to believe that they do not and will not go anywhere else in the Metroplex.

It really isn't all that difficult to understand why they are doing this.

Your way behind the power curve.

Luckily, the authors of this agreement weren't going to give SWA the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Flopgut]

I sure am glad Flopguts airline is doing so well, that his biggest concern is an issue involving American and Southwest. Maybe it's time to revive CALlite?uke:

I'm not sure what your saying.

Are you not the least bit pleased? The WA is going away. What are you so fussy about? I'm sorry the nature of the compromise doesn't dictate you, SWA/FO and Ivauir doing an overproduced-10-page-thread-victorylap-endzone dance. It is a decent deal though.