Freedomb all ready taking Mesa flights

[skybuda]

Well boys the fight has started. Mesa cancelled a Mesa Fresno flight today to run the Freedom plane instead. Oh, nad by the way, the crew was NOT pay protected.

Well JO it only took a day, day by day you are proving us once again right. I have a few 4 letter words I would like to tell ya but right now I will hold them to myself.

SB

 

[Cornelius]

Where are those guys based out of? If they are in Denver, I'll give them a swift kick in the a@s for ya.

 

[KingAirer]

Are these the CRJ700s dressed up in America WEst colors?

 

[altimaklr]

I hope Freedom Air is the last airline these jerks ever fly for. Anyone know if ALPA is planning to do any sort of blacklisting?

 

[Beavis]

Dude,

I hate Mesa and JO's practices as much as the next guy......but, these guys are not SCABS! They are stabbing the rest of us regional pilots in the back, and helping allow JO to whipsaw all the pilots in the Mesa Air Group, but they are not scabs. Ornstein is the new Lorenzo, and he will keep getting away with this crap until somebody stops him. The pilots at Freedom are just stupid, backstabbing p--cks, but not scabs.

 

[Anaconda]

This is a start...

Are you considering applying for a job with Freedom Airlines? If so, think again. ALPA urges all furloughed pilots to consider the facts and their own futures before applying for or accepting a job at Freedom Airlines. Working for Freedom Air is bad for the piloting profession and it’s a gamble for your own career.

Accepting work with Freedom Airlines is detrimental to all Mesa Air Group pilots. ALPA’s position is that Freedom Airlines is an alter-ego, runaway shop carrier created by Mesa Air Group specifically to undermine the collective bargaining strength, working conditions, and career aspirations of Mesa Airlines pilots. Mesa Air Group is using Freedom Air to intimidate and threaten Mesa Airlines pilots with the transfer of work opportunities as a means of dictating pilot pay and working conditions.

BACKGROUND
Under Ornstein’s control, Mesa Air Group operates the three wholly owned subsidiary carriers, Mesa Airlines, Air Midwest, and CCAir. The Mesa and Air Midwest pilots work under a single contract and a single pilot seniority list. In other words, Mesa and Air Midwest are a single pilot group.

Mesa Air Group is attempting to establish Freedom Airlines as a non-union carrier operating 70- and 90-seat jets on a separate operating certificate. At the same time, the Mesa Airlines pilots are in contract negotiations, seeking much-needed improvements in their compensation, retirement, and working conditions. Contract negotiations have been stalled by management are going extremely slowly. In fact, ALPA has filed a lawsuit asking the federal court to compel management to bargain in good faith as outlined by the Railway Labor Act.

When you are considering your next career move, consider the following facts:

· Freedom Airlines is a non-union airline. Freedom pilots will not have the protections and benefits of union representation or a union contract. Freedom pilots would be at-will employees subject to the whims of management’s decisions. Pilots would not have representation in disciplinary actions and would be subject to unilateral changes in their compensation, benefits, and working conditions.

· The status of Freedom Airlines is subject to challenge in litigation brought by ALPA. The Association is alleging that Mesa Air Group’s use of Freedom Airlines to undermine the collective bargaining position of the Mesa pilots is a violation of the Railway Labor Act. In the ongoing lawsuit, ALPA is asking the federal court to enjoin Mesa Air Group from operating Freedom Airlines.

· ALPA will also challenge Mesa Air Group’s ability to manage labor relations at Freedom Airlines separately from those of its other carriers. The National Mediation Board has already upheld the Association’s assertion that Mesa Airlines, Air Midwest, and CCAir are, in fact, a single carrier for collective bargaining purposes. If Freedom Airlines does begin operations, ALPA will seek a similar "single-carrier" ruling from the NMB as it applies to Freedom.

 

[DruDown]

I agree, they are not scabs - by definition. And I agree they are just stabbing all of us in the back. How about we refer to them as "Back Stabbers" so there is no confusion.

 

[F70pilot]

Is the Fresno route JO's to give out as he see's fit or did he receive a mandate from HP management to put a 70 seater on it?

 

[Rush Limbaugh]

Do you ALPA disciples actually expect dudes to turn down a job flying jets because ALPA doesn't approve of the carrier? YGTBSM!!! Now that Freedom is flying, I'd gladly buy a ticket. I'm sure they're cheaper since all unions do is suck the life out of companies and make them charge more for a mediocre product.

 

[eaglefly]

SCABS = people who KNOWINGLY cross a picket line.

SCUM = people who KNOWINGLY accept employment at a company whose purpose is to undermine and destroy hard-working amaricans efforts for the sole purpose of benefitting themselves.

Freedom Air employees = SCUM.

Period.

 

[AAflyer]

Rush,

Maybe if you buy a ticket they will let you fly for them. Wouldn't that be cool!!! Then you would never have to fly on any of the mediocre airlines and never join those evil unions. Good Luck
ACE

AAflyer
aka: mediocre airline pilot and evil union card carrying member

 

[bigD]

My question is - how are you guys going to get the word out that working for an airline like Freedom is detrimental to pilots elsewhere? To be honest with you, I would never have known about any of this had I not stumbled across this thread. If I'm Joe Blow average pilot strugging to find a job and didn't spend all my time on a message board, how would I know that taking a Freedom gig was hurting others?

This sounds like the kind of thing that needs to become higher profile. Maybe it already is and I've been living under a rock though....

 

[AV1ATRX]

bigD voiced the exact same thing I was thinking as I read this thread. Thank goodness I found this place or I would have never known this stuff... It's scary for people like me in the aviation community - so easy to make a career mistake and not knowing until it's too late...

 

[temcgrew]

then is it REALLY the pilots who are scum or scabs or whatever you feel like calling them, to take a job and support there family while trying to gain 121 experience to get a better job someday?
I feel the same, If I wouldn't have read this thread or consulted the great ALPA about a career choice, I could have been "BLACKLISTED" the rest of my career for a decision like that.

 

[B1900DFO]

Yes it really is the pilots who are scumbags if they take a job with Freedumb air. There is no excuse for not doing research on a company that you plan to work for. The "you can't fault someone for trying to support their family" argument is a bunch of crap. I guarantee you could make more money mowing your neighbor's lawn than you would working for JO, and you would get to see your kids more than a few times a month.

The only reason I can imagine people join Freedumb air is to try and get in the left seat of a 70 seat rj and be ahead of everyone else when hiring resumes. What they don't realize is that they are hurting the profession by setting a nasty precedent of flying a 70 seater for migrant worker wages, 8 days off a month, pitiful retirement, horrible workrules, etc. They are basically selling everyone out so JO's fat a## can put a little more cash in his bank account. He must laugh himself to sleep at night. If you want to work for free then go volunteer for angel flight and atleast you will be appreciated.

Rush Limbaugh,
Very Good Post! You should do us all a favor and never work for a unionized carrier. We don't deserve you!

 

[FL717]

Wow, after reading this thread I just couldn't keep out of the discussions. First thought is to Rush Limbaugh.... I believe your opinion would be 180 degrees if you ever worked at a non-union company, or even a union company with horrible workrules. Being union does not necessarily mean ALPA (contrary to some peoples corrolation of the two). ALPA just happens to be the biggest.

Second thought I had was regarding pilots not aware of Freedom Air and industry labor issues. It is extremely important that if you work in this industry, you must keep up on a wide range trade issues, which includes FAR's, NPRM's, Notams, employment options, industry "standard" work rules, pay, etc. etc. You would seek out all available information and advice on a particular company before you worked there wouldn't you? So if you are doing what you really should in this industry, you would have found out exactly what was going on at Mesa to there pilots.

I do NOT get into name calling on this board as if I was still in elementary school. I never use the 4 letter s -word even when I was at ALPA, even though I always played by the rules (contract) that I was paying dues for. Besides that definition does NOT fit the Freedom operation.. period. I won't call the pilots at Freedom scum. That is also juvenille. This is more about management. All labor/management issues and circumvents like this are instigated by management. There are people(labor) who have there own lives to live and manage and they will always put themselves and their families first, over that of any organization or co-workers. And while I would choose to not do that, they are always the minority, and Freedom will never get the non-union workforce necessary to reach any real business stature. By real business stature.. I mean the size of Mesa. It just won't happen.

 

[skybuda]

And to make things even better, Mesa CLX new hire classs. (Which one of my friends was in) So what does he get within and hour. That is right a call from Freedom, "If you want a flying job we can get you into freedom, or you can take your chances on Mesa latter" I have to get it to this guy, he truned then down cold. But since he already quite his job, and traveled to ICT for the ground school I know it had to be a hard decision.

The thing that really pissed him off is how did his name and number got to freedom since he had never sent anything over to them. Come on JO explane this on to us, you have said that these are two seperate companys, then why are you sending stuff from one to the other. I dont see American in its hay days CLX a class and then Delta calling them and offerring them a class.

When JO was asked to why the class was CLX. "we are down sizing the 1900 fleet" So if you know that you were going to down size why give there guys a day or two notice, or a date at all.

Sounds like we got another CCAir in the making.

SB

 

[DarnNearaJet]

Being ignorant of labor issues and the history of labor in the airline industry is as detrimental to your career as lack of systems/FAR knowledge. However you may feel about it -- it is true.

Just ask the 600-hour wonders who got a dream job with EAL in the late 1980's or with UAL in 1985.

 

[vere76]

A comment from JO


Mesa will not shut down. We will become a very successful leasing company.
That issue was discussed and fully supported by the Board at last week's
meeting. Do not underestimate our resolve to do the right thing. And being
held hostage is not the "American way" as I know it.

 

[tintube]

Limbaugh wrote: "Do you ALPA disciples actually expect dudes to turn down a job flying jets because ALPA doesn't approve of the carrier? YGTBSM!!!


----ALPA WOULD approve of Freedom as long as the flying is done by MESA pilots from Mesa seniority list including our pilots from CCAIR.
MESA is currently in contract negotioation and this is nothing other than a try to break down our Union.

"Now that Freedom is flying, I'd gladly buy a ticket. I'm sure they're cheaper since all unions do is suck the life out of companies and make them charge more for a mediocre product."

---Cheaper??!!!! What dream-world do you live in? Some people are going to get rich, and belive me, it is not going to be their pilots. Belive a first year F/O flying up to a 90 SEATER WILL MAKE LESS THAN $21- / HR.......How about leaving your Millitary career for that amount of $....