Freedom furlough

[mesaserf]

What the heck does the Comair MEC have to do with choosing what airplanes fly on Mesa's certificates?

They have scope language that prohibits other code share airlines that have anything more than 70 seats to fly Delta colors. The Freedom cert acts as a fire wall preventing scope violation. About three or four years ago our MEC Chairman at the behest of JO asked if we could get scope relief from Big D's MEC to combine flying on one cert. This was to reduce operating costs.

 

[Fltlvls]

Gave it all up... I didn't know they ever won anything to give up to begin with.

The big gain was capturing scope and stopping Freedom A from taking over the Mesa flying which was happening in PHX. The Mesa guys that didn't go to Freedom would show up for their trip only to find out that their flight(s) had been "CXLD" and that flight would be given to a Freedom 700 or 900 and the company would not pay protect the Mesa guys.There was an instance in PHX where a Mesa pilot and Freedom pilot got into a fist fight on the ramp.If Freedom A had not been stopped,Mesa would have changed the company name to Freedom Airlines because they were literally stealing flying away from Mesa.

 

[sayrejm]

But what does any of this have to do with ASA? This is a flight info forum isn't it? Sorry, had to do it.

 

[Full of LUV]

Yes......

If I remember correctly we had asked DELTA and Comair's MEC's if they would allow us to fly for them on MESA's cert instead of Freedom. But our ALPA brother and sisters denied our MEC's request. Thanks.

Thats because your a "regional" that flies 100 seat aircraft (or used to) for dirt regionals. I agree that it's a sham that it's ok on a seperate certificate by the own company, but scopes gotta come into play somewhere.

 

[johndog]

What the heck does the Comair MEC have to do with choosing what airplanes fly on Mesa's certificates?

From what I remember It had to do with a scope clause that (at the time) only allowed certain wholly owned carriers to fly a perticular size aircraft for DELTA. Even though these 900's weren't going to fly (for) DELTA. In any event our fellow union members would not allow us to fly our (ERJ) aircraft on the MESA cert because of this. Which is why we are on the Freedom certificate and subject to the massive ammount of igorance that prevades our proffesion.

ps. I don't want to spend Thanksgiving explaining this any further to the glib who frequent this website-so let this thread die please.

Happy thanksgving

 

[dowhite2]

Thats because your a "regional" that flies 100 seat aircraft (or used to) for dirt regionals. I agree that it's a sham that it's ok on a seperate certificate by the own company, but scopes gotta come into play somewhere.

Nope, sorry Mesa does not operate (or has ever) 100 seaters. Largest aircraft is the CRJ900. 7 years ago management tried to start a 737-200 operation for CRJ900+20% rate which Mesa ALPA refused. The only reason why the CRJ900s are on property is because freedom was started as a non-union operation. Mesa pilots used all their "negotiating capital" during contract negotiations to fold Freedom into Mesa, create a master seniority list and end the whipsaw and the beginning of a GoJets/TSA like situation. So all flying was recaptured by Mesa from the non-union Freedom however the consequence was a really crappy contract.

But don't let facts and history that you're ignorant of get in the way of your judgement.

 

[CX880]

Mesa pilots used all their "negotiating capital" during contract negotiations to fold Freedom into Mesa, create a master seniority list and end the whipsaw and the beginning of a GoJets/TSA like situation. So all flying was recaptured by Mesa from the non-union Freedom however the consequence was a really crappy contract.

.

Probably the smartest move you guys made though for company growth. At least your MEC and pilots had the foresight of more than 6 months down the road. Not after they find out having 50+ seaters is the only way a company will be competitive.

 

[COOPERVANE]

They are no different than you or I, they took the first RJ job they could get and stuck with it to get the time to move onto to bigger and better pastures.

SO tired of hearing this comment....THEY COULDN'T BE MORE DIFFERENT THAN ME!!

Another entitlement generation attitude with a plan. "1000 PIC and I'm outta here!" THIS is the problem. You will NEVER understand this concept it seems.

Why is it so hard to believe there are pilots out there that WILL NOT take "The first RJ job they could get"?

If more people with SJS did not jump into "The first RJ job they could get" this industry would be a different landscape.

"The first RJ job they could get" should be engraved in the tombstone of the airline business

I had offers from 3 regionals. I didn't apply to any of the bottom feeder crap regionals. It took more time and patience to do it that way. I took the offer from what I thought was the best choice in case MY PLAN didn't come to fruition. I don't have ANY sympathy for anyone who took "The first RJ job they could get" and are now whining at being furloughed or STUCK in the right seat forever.

You reap what you sow. Like....Reality sucks dude

 

[dowhite2]

Hey Coppervane,

I see no one complaining for sympathy or whining on this thread. Just answering and informing and respectfully commenting until your post.

 

[johndog]

SO tired of hearing this comment....THEY COULDN'T BE MORE DIFFERENT THAN ME!!

Another entitlement generation attitude with a plan. "1000 PIC and I'm outta here!" THIS is the problem. You will NEVER understand this concept it seems.

Why is it so hard to believe there are pilots out there that WILL NOT take "The first RJ job they could get"?

If more people with SJS did not jump into "The first RJ job they could get" this industry would be a different landscape.

"The first RJ job they could get" should be engraved in the tombstone of the airline business

I had offers from 3 regionals. I didn't apply to any of the bottom feeder crap regionals. It took more time and patience to do it that way. I took the offer from what I thought was the best choice in case MY PLAN didn't come to fruition. I don't have ANY sympathy for anyone who took "The first RJ job they could get" and are now whining at being furloughed or STUCK in the right seat forever.

You reap what you sow. Like....Reality sucks dude

Well congrats on being the smartest guy in the room.


People go to work at different regionals for all different reasons. Some of the guys I fly with interviewed at Comair or Skywest but didn't get hired.
Some went to the San Juan program and didn't know anyone in aviation befor school. Others, MESA was about the only place hireing at the time they were coming up. Some were living in Florida when we were based there. Same in New York when we were their. A few, the smartest among us saw the quick upgrade and came here for that reason. There is nothing wrong with any of these decisions.

The only problem I personally have with any of our pilots is dureing contract negotiations. some guys not taking the time to educate themselves, and not holding there unions a$$ to the heat to represent us better (negotiating comitee).

What I don't understand is why the desicion on your part to
"hold out" for your favorite regional equates to your hatred of me and other guys and gals for working at MESA. The vitrol. If you don't work for an acceptable airline (in your opinion) you have no worth.

Crazy...

 

[COOPERVANE]

Thanks for the compliment.

I am not surprised you dont understand. You really dont see why "will fly for food" is a harmful attitude.

The "hate" I feel is the downward pressure dirtbag regionals put on top tier regionals such as Comair. Partly on the backs of pilots who "take the first RJ job they could get"

These pilots ALWAYS have an excuse.

1. no one else was hiring
2. I didn't know they were a crappy company
3. Thats who offered me a job first
4. I don't care. Just want my 1000PIC and I'm gone

 

[johndog]

Thanks for the compliment.

I am not surprised you dont understand. You really dont see why "will fly for food" is a harmful attitude.

The "hate" I feel is the downward pressure dirtbag regionals put on top tier regionals such as Comair. Partly on the backs of pilots who "take the first RJ job they could get"

These pilots ALWAYS have an excuse.

1. no one else was hiring
2. I didn't know they were a crappy company
3. Thats who offered me a job first
4. I don't care. Just want my 1000PIC and I'm gone

Well coopervane, I feel your rigidity is beyond my abilties/or my time to reason with. If what I and others have posted doesn't make any sense then I imagine you are a a bit of a lost cause. I feel bad for you and I supose you spend a lot of time wondering why know one else "gets it".
One last bit, our current contract, that I voted no on, puts us in the middle of the regional pack. But I'm sure that's not good enough, or too late, or something.

I would recommend less fox news channel.

Happy Thanksgiving,
Johndog

 

[dowhite2]

Thanks for the compliment.

The "hate" I feel is the downward pressure dirtbag regionals put on top tier regionals such as Comair. Partly on the backs of pilots who "take the first RJ job they could get"

Wait a second, you mean Comair the same company who got the first regional jet in the US, whose management opened pandora's box? That being said I have no ill will against any of their pilots but you are ignorant or stupid to think when any company in any industry opens up a new market for any product that competition will not come in and compete with you. That's simple microeconomics.

 

[COOPERVANE]

I feel bad for you and I supose you spend a lot of time wondering why know one else "gets it".

I have a lot of company. It seems a percentage on the regional board and virtually everyone on the majors board "gets" the very simple concept that the "will fly for food" attitude is bad for the entire industry.

Yea, this is all Comairs' fault

You may come around when you grow up.

 

[CX880]

virtually everyone on the majors board "gets" the very simple concept that the "will fly for food" attitude is bad for the entire industry.

Yea, this is all Comairs' fault

You may come around when you grow up.

BS. If they had a CRJ900 dangling in front of them at 600 hours they would take it too free food or not free food. But they didn't, they had J32s and Metros with union mandated pay which we're stuck with. We all like to preach from the highest soap box about what other should be doing. You obviously have no idea how the industry works this is post de-regulation, it's no more roses and daises with sunshine all around. We can't have 12 non bottom feeding Comairs, other wise they would eventually turn into bottom feeders as well. Cmaor cannot hire everyone, some of us GASP!!!, will have to work at the lower bottom feeders. So can I please get your permission for that your MR highly Comair pylot, as soon as I'm eligible I'll go and apply to Comair where I can make 27 thousand in JFK but with a smile so I won't be bottom feeding for you at the lowly regional outfits. Today's good airlines will be tomorows victims and vice verca. Look at Southwest and the Legacies. Expressjet and Skywest and Mesa.