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freedom airlines

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cynic

cynic

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Posts
1,541
Who is freedom airlines. Looks like they fly for delta.
 
Freedom airlines was created by Mesa. To ensure Mesa remained on the bottom of the payscale, their management created Freedom to whipsaw one group of pilots against the other. I can't understand how these guys get people to show up at their classes.
 
I thought Freedom was created to circumvent the restrictions of US' Scope Clause at the time YV got CRJ9s for HP....then eventually when US' scope became relaxed they just ended up putting all or most of their Jungle Jets on the certificate to operate it for Delta

Not flamebaiting here but that was my interpretation of Freedom

-Paul
 
rustypigeon said:
Freedom airlines was created by Mesa. To ensure Mesa remained on the bottom of the payscale, their management created Freedom to whipsaw one group of pilots against the other. I can't understand how these guys get people to show up at their classes.
Click to expand...

Ancient history...the original freedom pilots (freedom A) were alter-ego scumbags who jumped from the mesa list out of seniority. All of these tools were forced back onto the mesa list after MAG alpa traded a concessionary contract to get scope language. Freedom was shut down after that.

The CURRENT freedom airlines (freedom B) uses the same operating certificate, but all the pilots are from the mesa alpa list. Mesa had to use a different cert to do their DCI flying...the mesa cert had too many 900's and would have conflicted with DAL scope.
 
rickair7777 said:
Ancient history...the original freedom pilots (freedom A) were alter-ego scumbags who jumped from the mesa list out of seniority. All of these tools were forced back onto the mesa list after MAG alpa traded a concessionary contract to get scope language. Freedom was shut down after that.

The CURRENT freedom airlines (freedom B) uses the same operating certificate, but all the pilots are from the mesa alpa list. Mesa had to use a different cert to do their DCI flying...the mesa cert had too many 900's and would have conflicted with DAL scope.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing things up. I dont know whats up with these guys who give out OLD info about us trying to make us look bad. I think they like to slander us for the certain fact that out of all the DCI cariers,we have the crappiest contract but the best performance :beer: ...Freedom is all ALPA by the way.
 
pdub20s said:
Thanks for clearing things up. I dont know whats up with these guys who give out OLD info about us trying to make us look bad. I think they like to slander us for the certain fact that out of all the DCI cariers,we have the crappiest contract but the best performance :beer: ...Freedom is all ALPA by the way.
Click to expand...

Dude, have you looked at your completion factor? When gate agents talk about Freedom, it is with an eye roll.
 
So, was the Freedom certificate a good deal or not?

I laugh when I read crap like this......the biggest B^%$ers about Freedom would have been furloughed when Mesa lost their U flying because there was no place to put the jets. It is OK to do an end run around the DAL scope when it saves your bacon, but when it was to do an end run around the USAir scope, it was an alter-ego, scumbag operation.

It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

A350
 
That's about the size
(where you put your eyes)
That's about the size of it.
 
Completion Factor is one thing and OT is another. We know that MESA and Freedom do not like to cancel flights on their own.
 
our completion factor is in the very high 90s. I dont know where you guys get your info...
 
A350 said:
So, was the Freedom certificate a good deal or not?

I laugh when I read crap like this......the biggest B^%$ers about Freedom would have been furloughed when Mesa lost their U flying because there was no place to put the jets. It is OK to do an end run around the DAL scope when it saves your bacon, but when it was to do an end run around the USAir scope, it was an alter-ego, scumbag operation.

It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

A350
Click to expand...


Disclaimers:
-I do not work for mesa/freedom.
-I think they are mostly weak sisters for cheerfully putting up with what JO dishes out.
-Based on my previous experience, I would assume that mesa/freedom's performance is the worst in the industry, and any "statistics" to the contrary are falsified by management.

With that said A350, you are extremely misinformed about regional dynamics...

Freedom A was an alter-ego because it was designed to circumvent mesa's own contract and seniority...basically it was mesa pilots stealing from other mesa pilots.

Freedom B was used for DAL flying PRIOR TO DAL BANKRUPTCY. At that time DAL had scope language that said no DCI regional could operate 900's. When Freedom signed up with DAL it was to operate 50-seat RJ's...there was not a contract or an intent at the time to operate 900's for DAL. The 900 scope was only an issue because Mesa operated 900's for Airways...this had nothing to do with DAL, but the fact that mesa owned them was technically a violation of scope language. So the Freedom B certificate was used to satisfy that technicality.

The DCI 900's came after DAL scope was loosened in BK...not a good thing but it had nothing to do with the Freedom B pilots. The first DAL 900's were flown by other regionals, not Freedom B.

I'm all about mesa-bashing, but let's keep it factual so we don't lose the high ground. There's more than enough to be said about mesa as it is...inventing our own fantasy version of reality is best left to Ornstool and Co.
 
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rickair7777 said:
Disclaimers:
-I do not work for mesa/freedom.
-I think they are mostly weak sisters for cheerfully putting up with what JO dishes out.
-Based on my previous experience, I would assume that mesa/freedom's performance is the worst in the industry, and any "statistics" to the contrary are falsified by management.


I'm all about mesa-bashing, but let's keep it factual so we don't lose the high ground. There's more than enough to be said about mesa as it is...inventing our own fantasy version of reality is best left to Ornstool and Co.
Click to expand...

Weaker?? In the words of "sho nuff" himself.... N*** Please!!!! Airlines love MAG pilots... Im talking mainline(s) too. You know why??? Cause being a mesa pilot requires mental toughness, the ability to watch your own a$$, the discipline to learn stuff on your own with out it being spoon fed to you.

Any pilot who bashes its colleagues and "brothers" in this industry needs to turn in his badge, return to flight instructing or whatever they did before they became an "airline pilot"(with exception to SCABS, they can kill themselves). No matter who you work for, we all share the same common love and goals(the love of flying, to work as little as possible and get paid as much as possible).

now if you want to bash MGT...then go ahead, but leave the pilot groups out of it.

FYI .. here is our most recent stats
FREEDOM:

Target Actual to date
September TCF
>98.0% Eligible Pilots
266 Actual TCF
99.12%

this is all the info i have so far. So if anyone else can bring me recent and accurate info...the show me
 
pdub20s said:
Weaker?? In the words of "sho nuff" himself.... N*** Please!!!! Airlines love MAG pilots... Im talking mainline(s) too. You know why??? Cause being a mesa pilot requires mental toughness, the ability to watch your own a$$, the discipline to learn stuff on your own with out it being spoon fed to you.

Any pilot who bashes its colleagues and "brothers" in this industry needs to turn in his badge, return to flight instructing or whatever they did before they became an "airline pilot"(with exception to SCABS, they can kill themselves). No matter who you work for, we all share the same common love and goals(the love of flying, to work as little as possible and get paid as much as possible).

now if you want to bash MGT...then go ahead, but leave the pilot groups out of it.
Click to expand...

Airlines may love MAG pilots...but those are ones WHO LEAVE (including me). I gave up on MAG pilots when I realized that most of the ones who were choosing to stay, plus the new hires with 200 hours and a DUI, are never going to do a darn thing about JO...they're too afraid of harming the only airline which would employ most of them.

I'll pleasently surprised if I'm proven wrong, but we'll see.

And I'm all for bashing MAG mgt. too.
 
How you like your block or NO better and your NO CX PAY? Anyway I still love make you guy's go around and block you on the Freq...SCAB!!!
 
pdub20s said:
Weaker?? In the words of "sho nuff" himself.... N*** Please!!!! Airlines love MAG pilots... Im talking mainline(s) too. You know why??? Cause being a mesa pilot requires mental toughness, the ability to watch your own a$$, the discipline to learn stuff on your own with out it being spoon fed to you.
Click to expand...

HAHAHAHA!!! Are you serious???? Im sure you are, and that is why you make a great MAG pet!!! Enjoy.:p
 
rickair7777 said:
Airlines may love MAG pilots...but those are ones WHO LEAVE (including me). I gave up on MAG pilots when I realized that most of the ones who were choosing to stay, plus the new hires with 200 hours and a DUI, are never going to do a darn thing about JO...they're too afraid of harming the only airline which would employ most of them.

I'll pleasently surprised if I'm proven wrong, but we'll see.

And I'm all for bashing MAG mgt. too.
Click to expand...

well we got to unite and speak with one voice... thats the only way we will solve our problems...
 
Another rookie just happy to be in the industry period running his mouth because he's happy to be an AIRLINE PILOT. Probably not even off IOE yet
 
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rickair:

As a furloughed U pilot, with over 15 years of service, I feel very qualified to speak of the Freedom thing when it comes to the USAir scope clause.

Take your rant and add USAirways where it says Delta and you are factually correct. The original Freedom certificate was formed for one reason....to circumvent the USAirways scope clause so Mesa Group could fly -700/-900 CRJ's for AWA. That JO used it as a whipsaw is only ALPA's fault because they allowed the split to form in their own pilot group. Only after the USAir bankruptcy and relaxing of the scope restrictions did you see it become anything but an end run around the USAir scope.

Again, I ask the question. Was it worth it? Did it or did it not save your a$$ when the USAir ERJ's were sent packing from CLT and ended up on the Freedom certificate flying for DAL? Without the Freedom certificate, all those jets get parked.

Your turn.

A350
 
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