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Freedom Airlines Accepts J4J.......

  • Thread starter Thread starter hhab
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Earthsquirrel:"For those who work at Mesa be glad J.O. posts a "paper" loss every year and doesn't have to pay you a pay raise. It keeps you employed. If things are so bad then please leave and find employment elsewhere in this wide open job market."
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WHooaaooo... So what you are saying is that NOBODY should ever get a rise, even if the company is making tons off $$$$.

You Sir, must be Good's gift to management. ( and the reason for communism....)
 
100LL,

It is not just our jobs they are gunning for, it is every job. freedom type companies will impact me at my company, and really put a squeeze on the companies like Eagle, ACA, Comair that are flying that type of equiptment.

With the advent of code-sharing and outsourcing anything is possible, and THAT is scary.

AAflyer
 
Did You Forget about CCair?

My biggest problem with the whole Freedom/Mesa thing is this: CCair has 130 pilots on the street. A mean seniority of around 10 years. We weren't able to come to agreements with management on payrates for 70/90 seat RJs and were forced to shut down because of this. If CCair had reached an agreement (one ALPA would never sign because it "hurt Mesa's chances at a better contract") there would be no Freedom. Now Mesa may be furloughing and Freedom is hiring all the while 130 highly qualified professional pilots are getting ready to finish their unemployment benefits. Let's not also forget that the U MEC stated that they would enter into no J4J agreement with a carrier that is not represented by ALPA.
 
To the Mesa guys: Before you think I'm not sympathetic to your situation, I AM!

BUT (as they say), the problem lies in the fact that since pilot supply is greater than demand, sooner or later someone is going to crack.

When there is a slight shortage of something, everyone keeps their good social graces and tries to look like a team player.

When the shortage becomes acute, it's every man for himself.

Human nature - we think we can stop it but rarely can.

I would love to make major airline pay someday. Probably never going to happen. I will be thankful if I can top out at Comair pay levels. Maybe I'm not being positive enough. I don't know.

I do know this - if I could work for Freedom pay rates flying that type of equipment WITHOUT HURTING other pilots, I would.
It's still more than I've ever made in aviation. (CA pay of course)

But I still don't think it's the Freedom pilots' fault.
Free markets are ugly, but cost controls are uglier.

We want to 'protect our profession', but get real - VERY FEW professions have this protection. We should not confuse the fact that we want something and then get the idea that we are MORALLY entitled to it.

We have created a situation where a pilot is a commodity.
Everyone upgrades in seniority order. We play the contract like a fiddle and then bitch when mgmt does the same.



THE REAL PROBLEM:

Too many pilots.

What happened to the old days, when you would instruct for a few years, then fly boxes, THEN move on to a regional?

Supply and demand. Lots of new jobs, get hired at 800 hours into a jet, upgrade within two years, etc. Freight companies and flight schools could not keep pilots. Why? Crap for pay & schedule.

CFI's telling airlines "Give me the RJ or I won't come work for you."

Then 9-11 /bad ecomony/dotcom meltdown, whatever.

Its the other side of the curve. Get used to it. None of us has the right to control the world to our own purposes. If you won't let Freedom guys jumpseat, fine. Your choice. They, and us, will live with the consequences of our decisions.


Rant Alert! Skip to next post -

The following contains sarcasm:

Maybe putting a limit on student starts would help. Let's tell all the flight schools to limit their student load so that there isn't a constant crop of new pilots looking for jobs. Maybe ALPA can get that done for us.

Maybe pilots from any school that have Ads that say "Be a first Officer, not a Flight Instructor" should be blackballed.

They do nothing but breed that attitude of 'I deserve an airline job right out of flight school with 200 dual given and 3.9 actual instrument.'

Don't be a pukey CFI driving your pathetic little Seneca around when you can be an epaulette-wearing hero LONG before you really deserve it.

I love dedicated CFI's. Ones who didn't see the job as beneath them. Ones that saw the opportunity to learn. i also have an affinity for freight dogs (who do the real dirty work of the flying biz).

Got on at a regional 700 hours? More power to you. Really. Acknowledge that you were fortunate to have such an expedited career path. Do not delude yourself that somehow you deserved it. And watch it when you criticize people who are doing something very similar to what you did.

Side note: Anyone who thinks they are ABOVE a CFI job or freight job shouldn't be pilots. If you didn't have to do it, be glad, not disdainful.

Rant Over- Back to filling out the Starbuck's Employment App.
 
The "industry"?

Airlines do not exist to provide jobs to pilots, airlines exist to transport people and cargo. The "industry" and what's good for it revolve around the service that is provided.

If you think that its bad for the industry that other people will do your job for less, take a good hard long look in the mirror.

Flame away.
 
Any freedom pilots out there. Would like to know if it is true that you guys were just gived a nice 10% pay cut. Or how about the 7 to 8 day off a month, dont you guys have a contract that says 9 days off. Or does it say 9 days off unless wants something else. Have fun you jackasses. New stickers are out:

I AM GETTING FURLOUGHED FOR FREEDOM PILOTS
 
skybuda-

My point as well, stated differently.

The honeymoon may soon be over at freedom.
Then the reality will sink in. Lots of things look like a good deal on paper.

Lots of low-time guys with 'turbine lust' would gladly fly for the low end of CFI pay - 'to get ahead'.

Then they find out there's no 'ahead' to get to.
 

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