FRED BUTTRELL Letter to CMR Pilots

[D'Angelo]

You *are* kidding, right?
I'm starting to wonder if you are in management in some way, shape or form if you are serious making a statement like that.
With that said, since I am not in the Comair's pilots shoes, I will not urge them to vote one way or the other, since I have nothing to lose in this. Hope it works out for you guys!

Dead serious my man. Do you even know what the average salary for an american is in this country? If you really want to get rich you will never get rich working for someone else. Fact is for what we do we are pretty well compensated. Especially if you have a 2 income household. Management? No however I use common sense for my thinking. I dont use the typical chest pounding hold the line blah blah BS. I know how to think for myself. Maybe some union thug will beat me up now that i said that.

 

[FDJ2]

So Comair accounts for 100 million out of how many Billions that Delta loses per year?

Yeah, $100M may not sound like much, but when you consider the fact that it is a $100M loss on only approximately 5% of the System ASMs, it becomes quite significant. Add in the fact that DAL is still responsible for many other costs associated with the operation that CMR never sees and that much of the losses DAL has posted includes Billions on right downs of ASA/CMR and RJs and you might start to get the picture. It is not only $100M of red ink significant for only 5% of the operation, but a whole lot more associated with DCI.

You're saying that flying the RJ is the main reason Delta is in trouble now?

No, but DAL's over exposure to the RJ market and it's squandering of billions in just the last 6 years on an aircraft that are rapidly approaching obsolesence in less than a decade undoubtedly has contributed significantly to our problems.

Just wondering why you love to show how the regional carriers lose money for Delta when it is doing a pretty good job of that by itself.

You won't find me apologizing or defending the poor marketing strategies of DAL management over the last few years.

 

[RP170]

You guys voted yes last time. Did you get the bigger, badder E170/190. No you got nothing. Now they want more. The big D just want to lower your cost so they can sell you. Don't listen to D'angelo, he has no balls to stand up for what he deserves. (nice picture, are you gay?). Cmair fought long and hard for this contract, don't give it up

Hey now it's the Q400!

 

[Kugelblitz]

C'mon dudes, this D'Angelo guy isn't for real. He is just stating every vile personality trait he can muster just to get you upset.

Anyone who would truly exhibit his traits would be in for a terrible reckoning in his life. Not being religious or voodooish, just realistic about the way we behave affects us in the long run. That kind of insane selfishness will lead one to calamity.

Again, the guy is just joshin. If he isn't, feel sorry for him.

As a former Comair guy, I wish you all the very best. I just left this past month and you will all be sorely missed. You are truly one classy and professional bunch of aviators.

 

[D'Angelo]

C'mon dudes, this D'Angelo guy isn't for real. He is just stating every vile personality trait he can muster just to get you upset.

Anyone who would truly exhibit his traits would be in for a terrible reckoning in his life. Not being religious or voodooish, just realistic about the way we behave affects us in the long run. That kind of insane selfishness will lead one to calamity.

Again, the guy is just joshin. If he isn't, feel sorry for him.

As a former Comair guy, I wish you all the very best. I just left this past month and you will all be sorely missed. You are truly one classy and professional bunch of aviators.

Not selfish. Just looking out for me and my family. How is that selfish? If I want to use open time to treat my lady to the vacation she deserves then so be it! I have no regrets. This is truly who I am and I dont regret it one bit. I heard a funny joke the other day. Whats the difference between a pilot and the airplane he flies? At least the plane stops whining at the gate! Its true pilots tend to be a bunch of whiners. They always find something to complain about no matter what

 

[Capi_Cafre']

......They pass the increase in fuel along to their customers. Untill the airlines start doing this by raising the price of the tickets.........

Why bother as long as it's so easy to just pass it along to their employees?

 

[701EV]

Not selfish. Just looking out for me and my family. How is that selfish? If I want to use open time to treat my lady to the vacation she deserves then so be it! I have no regrets. This is truly who I am and I dont regret it one bit. I heard a funny joke the other day. Whats the difference between a pilot and the airplane he flies? At least the plane stops whining at the gate! Its true pilots tend to be a bunch of whiners. They always find something to complain about no matter what

This must be FAST FREDDY himself.

What an IDIOT!

No he didn't go to Riddle, you get a better education than that at Riddle

701EV

 

[Capi_Cafre']

....If I want to use open time to treat my top to the vacation he deserves.........

unnnhhh.....UNNNNNHHHHH......ahhhhhhhhh

 

[Ace McCoy]

Did that letter really mention Mesaba and a no furlough clause or did I read it wrong? Mesaba has never had a no furlough clause.

 

[Rekks Inbound]

D'Angelo,

Read DiverDrivers post at the beginning of this thread. Let me add this to it.

You talk of picking up a little open time to make up the difference. Won't happen. We at AWAC went through this EXACT scenario in 2003, same promises, same everything. We agreed to this ourselves, but when the time comes that you try to pick up that time, it mysteriously disappears. Later, your union finds out that CS is assigning this open flying to reserves, but then they will be more than happy to JM you. Sounds great, time and a half, but now that dinner you planned with 'your lady' gets cancelled because you are doing an unplanned overnight in another podunk town.

Take the blinders off. Several other posters have it right. They'll come back for more. We AWAC pilots are fighting for our old contract back, since their was no long term contract in place to trigger the concessions. And now they (management) has come to us with "If you'll drop the arbitration and accept a B SCALE(unbelievable, huh?!), we'll continue to pursue the RFP with NW. See, give a little and it never ends.

To our brothers at Mesaba and Pinnacle, we will NOT accept this insulting proposal from our Management. I'd rather not do that flying rather than have growth based on false promises.

Rekks

 

[Ifly4money]

DAL737FO,

Do you propose that if I were furloughed today that I should be able to apply and accept employment with another airline and keep my senoirity rights at CMR. That is crazy! Next you'll tell the next airline should have to give me credit for years in service at the last airline. I wish that was the case, because now I would be a cpt at CMR and bypassed the crappy 1st year pay. The only people that get that treatment are CEO's and thats above my paygrade. I feel your pain that you guys furloughed, but CMR and DAL are seperate companies arn't we?

 

[Phony Marconi]

As I see it, the Buttrell Mandate has 2 choices:

1) VOTE NO and start over somewhere else.

2) VOTE YES and start over at Comair.

The "YES" scenario will have Comair management high-fiving each other and drooling over their bonuses.

The "NO" option will not only end the careers of current management at Comair, but it will expose them as the losers they really are. THEY will be the ones out job-hunting.....but with the stigma of being the ones that failed Comair.

VOTE NO!!!

 

[Kugelblitz]

I wish that were true about Comair management being exposed as losers would somehow make them suffer bitter medicine in the job market.

Truth of the matter is (As I see it through my own distorted lenses that is) that incompetence means nothing in procurring a job in upper management. These are privaledged types who received legacy educations at Ivy league colleges and are so well connected that they just move from one failure to the next. You know, sort of like a businessman from TX who failed multiple times but now runs a country. He got that Yale education because daddy donated 100's of thousands to the school through the alumnist. Do that, and even a dumba$$ son can get a high GPA and become President.

Shortly after I started my 3 year stint with Comair a gentlemen by the name of Mike Polumbo was hired as Delta CFO. Guess what his previous job was, CFO at my previous employer-TWA.

Does this post get me kicked out of the NRC?

 

[IHateMgmt]

D'Angelo, you are one of the most self-centered and short-sighted persons I have ever heard. Wow, you're really eat up that sh*t your management is feeding you, huh? Have you ever concidered that if you are already picking up open time now and you take a pay cut, that when you continue to pick up open time later you will still make less? I guess it's true, ignorance really is bliss.

Hey Rekks,
I wish there were more pilots out there with attitudes like yours. Thank you.

 

[Ifly4money]

As I see it, the Buttrell Mandate has 2 choices:

1) VOTE NO and start over somewhere else.

2) VOTE YES and start over at Comair.

The "YES" scenario will have Comair management high-fiving each other and drooling over their bonuses.

The "NO" option will not only end the careers of current management at Comair, but it will expose them as the losers they really are. THEY will be the ones out job-hunting.....but with the stigma of being the ones that failed Comair.

VOTE NO!!!

Preach on brother, preach on! And do I hear an Amen from the congregation?

 

[Kugelblitz]

D'Angelo, you are one of the most self-centered and short-sighted persons I have ever heard. Wow, you're really eat up that sh*t your management is feeding you, huh? Have you ever concidered that if you are already picking up open time now and you take a pay cut, that when you continue to pick up open time later you will still make less? I guess it's true, ignorance really is bliss.

Hey Rekks,
I wish there were more pilots out there with attitudes like yours. Thank you.

And for that reason, if this guy is truly for real, his life will be a train wreck. It probably already is but he is to arrogant to see that. I suspect that he knows this is the end of the line, if Comair goes he is finished.

Funny, I flew with a lot of Cpt.s in my 3 years at Comair and met no one even remotely like this person. I still say he is just an agitator.

 

[DiverDriver]

Comair "no" voters

To you guys who are trying to convince your fellow pilots to vote no on this here's a bit of advice.

Stop the name calling and belittling. I think that tactic more than anything convinced more people to vote yes at AWAC in 2003. The no voters were so caustic in their approach it didn't matter what they said and people turned away from them.

If you really want them to vote no and stand together give them a reason to be on the same "team". Acknowledge that they have their own feelings and thoughts and experiences on this. Some may view you as just someone who wants to jump off a bridge. Give them some idea of what you think. I have given my view on what will probably happen if you vote no. They will come back and talk to you. No guarantee but look what voting yes got us at AWAC. Same deal. We are out of United flying and all of our domiciles have closed to reopen across the country. We lost over 200 pilots last year due to attrition and we are hiring like crazy to keep up even though we are a shrinking airline.

I won't tell you how to vote. It would be hypocritical of me. But I'm just saying please take what happened to us and make a sound decision with what you've got before you.

Good luck.

 

[D'Angelo]

As always its mostly just a minority chest beater group. If you dont act like a good little union thug then they get all angry. I always thought the hardcore labor groups were all about diiiiiiversity. More or less its seems they want it their way or the highway. Go back to Jersey I hear the mafia needs some more foot soldiers. Theres plenty of open time right now so I will continue to pick it up. When the open time option runs out I will try to pick up extra trips. Fear not my friends I will find a way to time out so I can sip my pina coladas with the lady in december. Have fun working christmas! Life a train wreck? I think not my friends. If you vote no all the other airlines will be high fiving each other drooling over the quick upgrades thinking those suckers actually think they stood up for something? Ya "holding the line" really does any good now a days. I still say picking up open time makes no difference to the furloughs. They will be there one way or the other. It sucks but thats how things happen.

 

[DAL737FO]

DAL737FO,

Do you propose that if I were furloughed today that I should be able to apply and accept employment with another airline and keep my senoirity rights at CMR. That is crazy! Next you'll tell the next airline should have to give me credit for years in service at the last airline. I wish that was the case, because now I would be a cpt at CMR and bypassed the crappy 1st year pay. The only people that get that treatment are CEO's and thats above my paygrade. I feel your pain that you guys furloughed, but CMR and DAL are seperate companies arn't we?

Actually, I flew for two different companies while on furlough, both of which paid better than Comair and when the subject of the seniority number came up I just said "Make this a place that I want to stay and you don't have to worry about me leaving". If you get furloughed today or in the future drop me a PM and I'll point you in the right direction for a furlough job where you can keep your number. Oh that's right you wouldn't feel right by doing that. Good luck.

 

[DiverDriver]

As always its mostly just a minority chest beater group. If you dont act like a good little union thug then they get all angry. I always thought the hardcore labor groups were all about diiiiiiversity. More or less its seems they want it their way or the highway. Go back to Jersey I hear the mafia needs some more foot soldiers. Theres plenty of open time right now so I will continue to pick it up. When the open time option runs out I will try to pick up extra trips. Fear not my friends I will find a way to time out so I can sip my pina coladas with the lady in december. Have fun working christmas! Life a train wreck? I think not my friends. If you vote no all the other airlines will be high fiving each other drooling over the quick upgrades thinking those suckers actually think they stood up for something? Ya "holding the line" really does any good now a days. I still say picking up open time makes no difference to the furloughs. They will be there one way or the other. It sucks but thats how things happen.

Then you misunderstand unions. It's not about diversity. It's about having a common goal and STICKING TOGETHER to achieve that goal. You may see it as thuggery but people want to see everyone working together to achieve a common goal. If you feel your union is not acting according to your interests I suggest you volunteer to do some of the endless work needed to make things go. Be a rep. Join a committee. Be part of the solution and make change if you think it's wrong. But don't throw stones at what is going on unless you are trying to make change on the way business is conducted.

Ok, this isn't my specific fight and I don't have a vote here. I guess I'm done on this topic.