Fred a no-show in GSO today

[h25b]

WHAT??? Highly paid? United, Delta, and I think NWA had higher payrates for a 737 size aircraft 5 years ago! Not to mention the QOL and workrules and pension that made the career worth having just a few years ago. And what about 1998,1999, and 2000 when the the majors were making gobs of money and about half of those rj's you see today. We still had vacation and leasure travelers in large numbers. But we had more high dollar business travelers who have gone by the wayside. 1 full fare coach class ticket was probably worth 3 of these cheap leisure fares you see today. And First Class travelers were the icing on the cake. Now it seems like just a bunch of upgrades in first class who didn't pay anything near first class rate...I hate those people looking all smug like they paid the $2000 fare.

So you hate the customers that are paying YOUR salary.. You'll get far with that attitude pal...

So you're living in the past as well. Sorry. Oh, and Delta, United, and NWA are BANKRUPT !!!! I just find it ridiculous that all you sour grapes people are now moving on from CHQ and Mesa by now naming SWA as the new arch-enemy.

Of course this is the regionals forum where reality has no bearing on any discussion.

 

[Halo_RJdriver]

Dream on

So you hate the customers that are paying YOUR salary.. You'll get far with that attitude pal...

So you're living in the past as well. Sorry. Oh, and Delta, United, and NWA are BANKRUPT !!!! I just find it ridiculous that all you sour grapes people are now moving on from CHQ and Mesa by now naming SWA as the new arch-enemy.

Of course this is the regionals forum where reality has no bearing on any discussion.

SWA has been a LLC Greyhound carrier enemy since day one. Ask any of your bankrupt carrier employees. I am sure no one hates people that are paying money to fly. I dislike the rates they are paying. It's almost 2006. The sky isn't going to fall if SWA and JETBLU keep selling 39.99 fares all year but your salary is going to go down with FARES. Simple economics. Until all airlines take a stand on passing the oil/fuel costs onto customers our Salaries will continue to dive for minimum wage.

 

[pipejockey]

h25, I never said I hate the customers that pay my salary. You and everybody else knows that I meant the attitude these coach class travelers have when they get the upgrade to 1st class. Half of 1st class, which used to be the airlines bread and butter are upgrades from coach. They are not what I would call the "real" first class customers who are actually paying first class fare.

And why is Delta,NWA, and United bankrupt? They have had to lower prices so far to keep from losing their customers to the LCC's they can't earn a profit. Now their employees end up working for rockbottom wages just like the LCC's employees. Wages which you apparently feel are fair huh? And, in addition, if the airlines paid their people a decent wage, then maybe they could hire some educated people with a little class instead of these totally incompetent, rude, hateful, mean-spirited, unhelpful people they have working for them at the airports. I mean it's crazy the attitude from these people anymore. They act as if you are bothering them by expecting them to do their jobs. I have agents flat-out refuse to help me, telling me to go see someone else, in other words, they can't be bothered with helping a customer who pays their wages. The other day I tried to use a self service kiosk to check in, but my company spelled my name wrong when buying my ticket so it wouldn't recognize me. It spit out a receipt telling me to see an agent...HAHAHA. WHAT AGENT!! Hundreds of people waiting in line and only 1 agent checking people in for coach. I try to get her to check me in and she's calling names of other people who have checked in using the kiosks and who need bags checked. I'm like hey, I was in line before all these people you're calling, she tells me to step aside, continuing to call people who were behind me. I said this is BS and put my bag on the scale. She said she refuses to check me in and went to the next computer, I followed and plopped my bag on the scale once again and said we can play this all day or you can check me in, she walked off and someone from first class check in had to come over...professionalism at it's finest huh? And this is only but one incident in the past few weeks. All with AA by the way. Their customer service has been atrocious. But I can't blame the airlines, I blame the traveling public. You get what you pay for!!

 

[CSY Mon]

The legacy carriers got themselves in this mess and have no one else to blame but themselves.

Aye, another Einstein with all the answers and no solutions..

 

[DrewBlows]

Wow has this thread creeped. Here's another off topic post.

To those who are glad to see Comair furloughing...

Consider that those being furloughed are the pilots that have been hired in the past year or so, and dont' have a role in the Comair/ Delta pissing match.

 

[h25b]

Aye, another Einstein with all the answers and no solutions..

Looks like they're using BK to solve one of the problems.... TOO MANY 50 SEAT RJ's... That's one solution... Happy now ?

 

[h25b]

And, in addition, if the airlines paid their people a decent wage, then maybe they could hire some educated people with a little class instead of these totally incompetent, rude, hateful, mean-spirited, unhelpful people they have working for them at the airports. I mean it's crazy the attitude from these people anymore. They act as if you are bothering them by expecting them to do their jobs.

You haven't been spending too much time as a paying passenger then. The best customer service I receive is when traveling Southwest. I can actually afford fully refundable fairs on them and get to changed flights easier that way.

I actually got cursed at from a US Airways employee at DCA for politely asking when they planned on boarding my flight (a freaking MESA RJ I think...)

 

[BenderGonzales]

Respectfully, I do not advocate raising fares simply for the sake of raising fares.

I DO, however, condemn airlines flying at a loss. The Jetblue "shuttle" intro fares of $25 are obscene and predatory.

Ok -- that's all I have to say about THAT. Now... 50 seat RJs:

Regional-jets (for the millionth time) are a HIGH COST PRODUCT.

The cost per seat mile on an RJ is extremely high because there are fewer seats to spread out the cost of the operation.

What makes RJ's appealing to airline management? Labor at the so-called "regionals" is so unbelievably low cost that the CASM is leveraged downward. Even better? These small-jet providers are actually COMPETING for the lift!!!

It's like that TV commercial. "When lenders compete, you get a better deal".

So as I see it there are several seperate and easily identifiable problems here -- and very few actual solutions.

#1. Yields set less than cost
#2. Regional-jet economics
#3. "bid" for flying

Whose fault is it?
#1. Airline managers who are bankers
#2. Airline managers who are bankers
#3. ALPA

Solutions?
Any feasible solution would require a large-scale change in the airline industry. The pilots simply do not have the negotiating capital -- and likely never will again -- to make it occur.

 

[h25b]

Respectfully, I do not advocate raising fares simply for the sake of raising fares.

I DO, however, condemn airlines flying at a loss. The Jetblue "shuttle" intro fares of $25 are obscene and predatory.

Ok -- that's all I have to say about THAT. Now... 50 seat RJs:

Regional-jets (for the millionth time) are a HIGH COST PRODUCT.

The cost per seat mile on an RJ is extremely high because there are fewer seats to spread out the cost of the operation.

What makes RJ's appealing to airline management? Labor at the so-called "regionals" is so unbelievably low cost that the CASM is leveraged downward. Even better? These small-jet providers are actually COMPETING for the lift!!!

It's like that TV commercial. "When lenders compete, you get a better deal".

So as I see it there are several seperate and easily identifiable problems here -- and very few actual solutions.

#1. Yields set less than cost
#2. Regional-jet economics
#3. "bid" for flying

Whose fault is it?
#1. Airline managers who are bankers
#2. Airline managers who are bankers
#3. ALPA

Solutions?
Any feasible solution would require a large-scale change in the airline industry. The pilots simply do not have the negotiating capital -- and likely never will again -- to make it occur.

Why can't they understand that SWA is not flying at a loss with their low fares and therefore have no clue what they're talking about. Like I said, I knew we were in big trouble when I started connecting from one Rj to another RJ... It's called high CASM and they didn't notice that it isn't working out too well for FlyI...

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Why can't they understand that SWA is not flying at a loss with their low fares and therefore have no clue what they're talking about. Like I said, I knew we were in big trouble when I started connecting from one Rj to another RJ... It's called high CASM and they didn't notice that it isn't working out too well for FlyI...

Why can't you understand that this thread is about Comair and you're completely off topic?

 

[BenderGonzales]

Because, quite frankly, this thread could be about ANY so-called "regional" airline. It was about Midway, It's about Fly-I, it's about Comair and ASA...

This week Comair is fighting for their survival. Next week it could be Air Wisconsin, or PSA, or even Mesa.

This is a situation that we need to understand if we're to make this our profession. Hiding with your head in the sand and thinking, "it'll never happen to me" is foolishness.

H25B is right to bring up other airlines. The Comair bankruptcy is a lesson. We need to all sit down, pick up our #2 pencils, and take notes.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Being furloughed, no matter what stage of your career progression, is never an easy thing to deal with. Be careful of bad karma!!!!!!!!

 

[Thedude]

2 examples: Jetblue's introductory $29 fares BOS-JFK, & a friend just bought a roundtrip from Midway to orlando for $120. How can anything good come from all this?

Everyone is always quoting how much cheaper all the LCC are and the low, low specials that they run. Newsflash...only a few seats are normally available at those low cost. Ever really done some cost comparsion on route segments? I have actually found segments that were higher on SWA than on NWA when price shopping. But on the flipside I will agree that some carriers were overcharging on walkup tickets. I read somewhere that the SWA marketing dept had done a helluva job at getting the mass market to believe they always had the best price.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Here we go!

Why can't they understand that SWA is not flying at a loss with their low fares and therefore have no clue what they're talking about.

True for this year. Next year SW fuel is only hedged 25% and is expected to cost 600 mil in additional fuel costs. They only made 340 mil or so this year, which is substantially less than the 600 mil it is going to cost next year. They are going to be in the same boat that most of the industry is in.

 

[BR549]

It seem as though the pendulum is swinging the other way now in favor of the mainline. What do you guys think?

 

[h25b]

Why can't they understand that SWA is not flying at a loss with their low fares and therefore have no clue what they're talking about.

True for this year. Next year SW fuel is only hedged 25% and is expected to cost 600 mil in additional fuel costs. They only made 340 mil or so this year, which is substantially less than the 600 mil it is going to cost next year. They are going to be in the same boat that most of the industry is in.

So I suspect you'll see those slight increases in ticket prices that everyone seems to get so hot over in addition to some productivity gains.

 

[surplus1]

The Comair bankruptcy is a lesson. We need to all sit down, pick up our #2 pencils, and take notes.

It's a lesson all right and as you take notes the first one should be: Comair isn't bankrupt at all. Delta is bankrupt and has dragged Comair into its mess.

Those fools in Atlanta have literally destroyed the best run regional airline in the country.

Unfortunately pilots have no way to prevent their company from being acquired by a collection of incompetents. Therefore we now have to pay the price of the stupidity of Delta Air Lines. About that we have every right to be angry.

 

[cmrflyer]

And angry we are. Those morons in ATL have taken the best postioned major airline (post 911) and the most profitable airline in the world, and run both of them into the ground in four short years.
Now they run to court to reduce our salary to cover their inability to do their job.
Job 1: write contracts.
Job 2: run airline

Job 3: if you can't do that, get a judge to do it for you.
Job 4:Make sure you have a bullet proof pension, then screw everyone else who has worked for the company.