Fractional vs. owned aircraft, pros and cons

[satpak77]

NJA you appear to have (well you did, disregard "appear to") done something which allowed you to switch seats from driving the plane to riding in the back of your own plane.

Care to share your story with us? Granted, this is public internet but it might be a great tale in a time where all we hear is gloom and doom.

Thanks

 

[jonjuan]

Hard to beat the recovery time of a fractional with hundreds of airplanes and nearly 3,000 professionally trained pilots...

Especially when flying's down 40% with the same # of pilots.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I don't think NJAOwner is (or was) a pilot. He is one of those people that I wish I could emulate: when he boards a business aircraft, he turns right, not left.

And thank you again NJAOwner for your business. YOU (and others like you) are why we are here.

 

[gutshotdraw]

And it's about 3300 pilots......

 

[satpak77]

I don't think NJAOwner is (or was) a pilot. He is one of those people that I wish I could emulate: when he boards a business aircraft, he turns right, not left.

And thank you again NJAOwner for your business. YOU (and others like you) are why we are here.

I agree...pilot or not, he appears to understand this crazy aviation business, maybe he can shed some advice down on us...

(future frax owner wanna-be myself)

 

[gutshotdraw]

Me too....except some bastage insurance agency employees had the temerity to win MY $216 million jackpot last week

 

[FurloughedAgain]

10% rule. The extra 300 weren't particularly well trained.

 

[NJAowner]

I am not a pilot but have loved flying since I was a little kid and we actually needed to dress up to fly to Florida. One day I may learn to fly (I thnk one or more of my sons may want to learn), but I would never, never go up with out a well experienced professional pilot next to me. I have no desire to fly solo. (My description is more like "Aircraft Flown In" not "Aircraft I've Been Pilot Of".

That said, I do understand the business (but not everything about it). I have had a share for many years and have friends who own their own aircraft (most of which fly more than I do). The ones who don't fly much have many, many headaches with owning a aircraft. My biggest headache with NJA is when ther isn't a movie we like on the plane or the local caterer decides to put something unusually on a dish. Not much for the headache department -- thankfully.

Pure number of flight hours is not the only criteria of whether to own or go frax. You need to look at the missions. If I were to fly alot but go out and back in the same day (or next day), ownership could be justified with fewer hours. If I need a large range of aircraft of spend alot of time out on the road in one place, frax may be better than ownership at more hours. If I go from NY to Wichita for a week and then Arizona for a week and then Colorado for 4 days it may not make sense to tie up a plane and crew on the road or keep flying them back to the base.

Be wary of charter management. Charter is way down (most businesses and families I know who charter have cut way back and will stay down for a while). The people who want/need to keep flying through this environment own or go fractional. If you think fractional sales people strech performance numbers they are just beginnings in the "asusmption" categories compared with charter management salesmen. I have never seen a management proposal where I don't fly for free or make money.

Fly safe.

 

[johnsonrod]

My point in mentioning that research article was that it provided some counter points against fractional flying that might be relevant. I wouldn't advocate one way or the other. He should look for the article regardless.

Updated:

I just found the article through a search. Again, I am not advocating one way or the other - I just think you should consider points on both sides. This article provides a pretty good look at the economics of the frac business:

http://www.aia-aerospace.org/assets/smc_wp-fractionalaviation.pdf

 

[johnsonrod]

Here's a good article about the background of fractional flying and the challenges of operating a profitable frac company - I just found it by searching this forum:

http://www.aia-aerospace.org/assets/smc_wp-fractionalaviation.pdf

I think some of the info might be relevant to you. Good luck.

 

[BoilerUP]

The flexibility a fractional provides a client in terms of AOG response and aircraft adaptability comes at a VERY steep premium, especially if you fly more than 250-300 hours per year.

In Oct 2007 our company did an analysis on replacing our Citation II with a quarter share of a NJA Ultra. The 1/4 share was $2.2M, and after all the surcharges & hourly costs related to the quarter share's 200 annual flight hours were totaled, we could operate our Citation II for around 350 hours...which is +/- 5% of our average annual utilization. Even taking the Ultra's marginally faster speeds into account, we were still money WAY ahead keeping our aircraft.

In our case, if we need lift to supplement our aircraft (in case of maintenance, AOG, etc) or need a larger aircraft for a particular trip, we can charter an Excel, Hawker, LR45, etc. (from a local vendor, EJM, etc) for substantially less cost than the premium paid for a fractional.

Fractionals provide a great product with superior flexibility...but that product simply isn't cost effective if you fly a substantial number of hours per year.

 

[cjdriver]

Seems like no company that uses their plane for actual business vs pleasure goes the fractional route. Most of the customers I flew in frac were pleasure trips. All of the trips I fly 91 for my company are business. Two different customer bases. If someone needs a ride to the beach or mountains, maybe frac is the way to go. If you need to fly 8 employees 1000nm to do business then turn around and get another 8, whole ownership is the way to go.

 

[CALRepublic]

My boss went to the fractionals and bought shares in a GIV for a few years. He gave up when he and his wife were waiting to be picked-up in the GIV and here comes a Citation that the previous passenger had thrown-up in, and they were running two hours late, the F/O started throwing the bags into the cargo compartment. I had to find some fabrezee and the boss and I ended up re-loading the bags. After this we received a brand new Challenger, Thanks’ to fractionals I still have a job.

Hang on to that one incident buddy.

I understand your frustation, but let's not go there. Are you going to tell me that never happens at a charter/flt. dept.??? You're flying along and someone throws up in your challenger, you're suppose to wait 5 hours and take'em back... What happens then???

Give us the pros of owning, let's not start bashing eachother.

 

[pilotviolin]

Pros of Owning:

*No need for passenger lists. Whomever shows up, gets on board.

*Complete Flexibility. If our Principles show up a half an hour to 3 days late it doesn't matter. Or Visa Versa..

*Destination changes in flight. Happens several times a year for us. No big deal.

* No B.S. fuel surcharges, Management fees.. e.g.

* Leave stuff on the airplane. Jackets, computers, bags, medicine, tools, always on the airplane when the need them.

* VFR flights, special requests. Took a trip once, scouting out Mt. Biking areas.

There are other ones, but there are pros and cons both way. It is like owning your own car and renting.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Pros of Owning:

*No need for passenger lists. Whomever shows up, gets on board.

Not when the TSA gets done with this LASP bu!!&hite. If the jet weighs more than 12, 500 lbs, you get to run no fly lists too. And pay to get a security plan authorized. And pay an outside third-party auditer every two years to check it. And get wanded and screened at the FBO. And get told you can't go to Smalltown USA because the security there is "inadequate." And you can't take the boss hunting anymore because his shotguns are a danger to national security.

Sorry, thread creep. Rant complete. Carry on.