Fractional Info...Flight Options or EJA

[Toad4]

I am currently a First Officer flying unsched part 135 in Lear 20 series (99% cargo). I have 500 now in the Lear and should upgrade soon, but the lifestyle, pay, and equipment is not what I would refer to as "top notch". Not really complaining much, I realize I'm lucky to have a jet job and all, but...I am trying to get on at Flight Options, but as yet have not heard from them. I started sending them my resume in December. I did get an application from EJA but I have heard that people there are not happy and that there is some problem with the contract. I also don't know anyone at EJA and a few at FO.

I have 2700 TT, 1900 PIC, 1200 Turbine, 500 Jet, 650 Multi. Any suggestions on who I would be competitive for or contacts at EJA and Flight Options would be appreciated. Thanks again and blue skies.

Toad

 

[1900cpt]

Not sure why people are unhappy at eja/nj, or what"problem" there is. I am personally very happy to be at eja. Sure the contract is not done, and probably wont be for a while....but this job is 100% better than the regional job i had before.

As for the app you received.....that is worth its weight in gold right now. They are not even mailing anymore out right now since they have so many resumes/apps on file right now.

The only problem i see is that with the amount of people with there stuff in, i heard that interviews are already booked up for the next 6 months or so. Also, from what i have heard, they are looking at people with 5-8000 hrs now. The mins have not changed, just taking the higher time guys since they can pick and choose who they want.

Send it in, cant hurt....there are guys that would kill for that app.

1900cpt

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I've read a lot about the fractionals this past 1.5 years. I believe that EJA is the best, and Flt Options is also good, but not quite up to EJA standards.

The mins for Flt Options is an ATP, and they have hired guys with around 2000 hours, so I think it's easier to get on with them. They do, currently, have about 9000 resumes on file, and, apparently, the only way to get one looked at is to have someone you know there walk it in. It goes onto the 2000 stack instead of the 7000 general stack.

Good luck!

Cliff
GB,WI

 

[lrdriver]

I would think long and hard about Flt. Options before I make the move. I was hired at Raytheon over a year ago and put in the so called pool when all the hiring stopped. I was told by Raytheon that Flt. Options was purchasing Raytheon and that we would now be going through them instead. I tried for two months to talk with someone at Flt. Options about this and my statues but, could never reach anyone or even get call back after numerous phone calls and e-mails.

I was hired by NetJets in February and have not looked back. The caliber of people here at NetJets are by far the best and the nicest. They return calls, answer questions and go out of their way to treat you with respect. I have nothing but great things to say about NetJets. Yes, with any job there are problems but, with NetJets, they know the problems and are willing to at least look at them and try to solve them. Hopefully the new contract will drive the point home.

 

[FracPilot]

"I was hired at Raytheon over a year ago and put in the so called pool when all the hiring stopped."

Key phrase there. You were hired by RTA, not Flight Options. FO was under no obligation to hire people that were in the "pool" at RTA. Who knows if the disgruntled employees(just found out their company sold, and did not know their future) in the offices at RTA even passed the "pool" info on to FO or not.

"The caliber of people here at NetJets are by far the best and the nicest."

That's great that you feel that way about the company you work for. It's even better that you are able to ascertain that they are the best without knowing anything about the majority of the industry. Are you psychic? Actually, you just sound disgruntled. Don't let that chip on your shoulder weigh you down. Have some fun in life and enjoy what you have, not dwell on what you don't.

 

[Toad4]

I appreciate everyone's comments and advice. I assume that Frac Pilot doesn't work for EJA. I am pretty confident that I would be happy at either Flight Options or Executive Jet. I am not sure if I will be competitive at either one though and I don't know anyone at EJA for a recommendation. I am also very curious about the new contract for EJ and when it is supposed to come through.

I am currently flying unscheduled 135 cargo in Lear's that are older than I am. I made a little over $13,000 last year after taxes and have 4 scheduled days off a month. It is going to be difficult for anywhere not to be better. The key is that I want to make my next move a career. So, Flight Options and Executive Jet are still looking pretty neck and neck. Any comments as to lifestyle, pay, benifits, etc. would be very helpful. I am also curious about a rumor I heard that all new hires are going into the King Air 200 right seat for a year at Flight Options

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I know of two ex-army guys who recently got on at Flt Options with about 2000TT. The mins for EJA are much higher than that-Flt Options is ATP AMEL.

Cliff

 

[flydog]

New hires at Flight Options are going into the Citation II, IV, CJ1, Beechjet, King Air 200 depending on whats available when you are hired. I heard this month there are slots for Citation II and III FO. The Citation II FO pay is 34k and the III is 38k which are both substantially higher than EJA

I was called for an interview when I had around 2000TT. A very enthusiastic recommendation from an FO pilot (who knows you and has flown with you) is the key to an interview for lower time pilots.

 

[EJA Capt]

The Citation II FO pay is 34k and the III is 38k which are both substantially higher than EJA.

I don't know if I would call it substatial considering OPTs is paying close to $3000 per year for insurance that Netjets pilots don't. (Don't say we have to pay union dues in response, they are nowhere near 3K/yr.) Too many factors are involved in compensation. Do you think Ricci is going to pay SUBSTANTIALLY more for a pilot than he has to? IE... the competition.

I know everyone is waiting on OUR contract to be finished, and Ricci says he will exceed our new salary. But remember, this is OUR contract, Ricci is under NO OBLIGATION to raise OPTs pay. Do you think he will give you our retro pay to last Oct too? Who knows, maybe our contract is finished, we just never told anyone.

 

[tdvalve]

Also, every SIC who's been at Netjets more than a couple of months is drawing Captain's pay.

 

[flydog]

Insurance at Options doesnt cost $3,000 per year. Its starts at $50 per month without dependents.

Flight Options is also the only fractional with a jumpseat agreement and the only fractional that allows you to live anywhere you want

As far as Options pay matching EJA when the contract is signed who knows. Flight Options raised their light jet FO pay substantially prior to the RTA merger without any reason. Flight Options never had any reason to pay their pilots industry leading pay in the first place so I dont see any reason to doubt than Ken Ricci will meet or exceed any contract EJA gets.

Year 1 Captains pay at EJA is about the same as Year 1 FO pay at EJA. This is per the EJA pilots website

EJA would have to raise their FO pay over 40% and almost double their Year 1 Captain pay just to match Flight Options. This type of salary increase in a contract would be unprecedented and astounding especially considering the fact that EJA lost money last year and they are awash in unsold airplanes including most of their BBJs.

Flight Options +10% would be a lot more realistic but I guess we'll see when a contract is finally signed.

 

[Toad4]

I can see that both pilots for Flight Options and Executive Jet are very vocal and think that each has the best deal. It is nice to see that kind of pride in your employer. I can't say that it goes on much in the cargo world "i.e. never". It seems that the bottom line is that both are fine employers and I should be lucky to be at either.

I have a few questions regarding EJA though. I am under the impression that all EJA aircraft must be less than 5 yrs. old (I'm not sure where I got that). What will happen when the aircraft reached 5 yrs? I am also curious as to customers obligations to buy a new jet. Now, it would seem just through simple common sense that a 5 yr old jet can be bought cheaper than a brand new jet and; IN GENERAL (read don't take this for anymore than it is), will do everything the new one will. I don't now, nor have I ever understood rich people, but it would seem to me that EJA would loose a large market share to Flight Options when it comes time to belly up to the new airplane bar. It also seems that the cost of these used jets should be driven down more by the relative abundance of them. This makes Options sound like the better long term bet, but I have been wrong before.

 

[EJA Capt]

Insurance at Options doesn't cost $3,000 per year. Its starts at $50 per month without dependents.

I did the conversion on the Opts website after the merger. My current situation with wife and kids would have cost $2880/yr at Opts.

Year 1 Captains pay at EJA is about the same as Year 1 FO pay at EJA. This is per the EJA pilots website[/QUOTE]

You might want to look again. 1st year EJ FO is $27,108. 1st year EJ Capt is $37,560. Doesn't look "about the same" to me.
Still low, I know. But we know OUR raise is coming.

...EJA lost money last year and they are awash in unsold airplanes including most of their BBJs. [/QUOTE]

Who keeps telling you guys we have UNSOLD airplanes? Is Ricci passing out the Kool-Aid again? Furthermore, read the fine print on the Berkshire annual report. Netjets US makes money. Netjets Europe is the segment that "looses" money. Don't worry about our BBJs, Boeing owns the unsold aircraft, not us, they are core fleet aircraft anyway. I don't think 4 unsold airplanes in 400 is exactly "awash."


Toad4,
To get back to your question on this thread, Netjets is a great place to be. I don't know where you heard that we are unhappy. I don't think that could be farther from the truth. The only problem with the contract is that it isn't finished. Something of this magnitude takes a lot of time. This contract will set the tone of the fractional industry for years to come. It is not as simple as copying the old contract with new pay figures and adding a few gateways. When the pay issue is settled I have no doubt that you will see quantum leaps in the pay scale. Money aside, keep in mind the quality of life issues. And as always, talk to pilots of each frac in the FBOs, judge for yourself who may be happier.

 

[rufus]

In the last couple of months I have had too many FO and RTA pilots come to me with thier resume. I think that speaks the truth. When was the last time you heard a netjets guy ask a FO pilot for help getting a job. I WILL HELP YOU, NEVER.

 

[Toad4]

Okay, one last question. I know that EJA has domiciles throughout the country. I currnently live in Fort Wayne, IN. Can I continue to live in Fort Wayne and fly for EJA? I know that Flight Options wouldn't be a problem, but I'm not sure about EJA. Thanks again to everyone for their input. I really appreciate it.

 

[Mach92]

Hey its great your asking all these questions on NETJETS. I think what your missing is getting a job here is rather impossible now. What we are being told at NETJETS that all classes are full for the rest of 2002. The adv time for new hires at NETJETS is now over 7000 hours. Just something to think about. I also know uncle Ken(FLOPS) hates unions and anyone trying to or talks about one is fired. IF FLOPS is so great, why do I have no less then 3 or 4 pilots each week asking me "How can I get a job at NETJETS"?

 

[tjsatter]

At NetJets you can live anywhere you want. The midnight before you go on duty however you must be within 100 miles or 3 hours whichever is more restrictive of your gateway. The gateway list is on the web page.

tj

 

[FracPilot]

Toad4,

As you can tell, there are pilots from both companies that absolutely love their job, and others that seem to be bitter about something and feel compelled to lash out at others. EJA has some ex-FO pilots, and FO has some ex-EJA pilots. Before the EJA guys spout off, no these guys that work here were not fired from EJA - they just wanted to make respectable wages.

Your best bet is to talk to pilots on the road and see who is happy and who is not. If I were in your position, I would take a position with the first one that offered me a job. Both have their strong and weak points, but overall the pilots seem to be happy at both companies.

Funny how I never hear in person the kinds of things I read here from EJA guys.

 

[flydog]

Quoted from AIN:

Word on the street last month said NetJets has failed to sell any shares in Boeing Business Jets since the first airplane joined the fleet last year, but the company denies this. An Executive Jet official told AIN that while the market for large aircraft is slow, NetJets has sold some BBJ shares. However, he declined to reveal the number or how recently they were bought. The company now has seven BBJs on strength but apparently few owners to carry in them, an expensive turn of events for the company that started the frax business

 

[highflyer]

Lend an ear for a minute....

How much can you all accomplish by bantering back and forth over each companies strong and weak points. This is child's play...and does not lend itself to building up the aviation industry and our profession as pilots. If you wish to work for NetJets, apply. If you wish to work for Flight Options, apply. I did with both and NetJets called me in 12 days after receiving the application. I did not even get a confirmation letter from Flight Options after sending several resumes. Even our little brother, CitationShares, sent me a nice form letter stating their thanks for my interest! To each his own, but if you want hard facts about money and benefits, go to www.fracstats.com and research for yourself. In the meantime, save some of your typing skills for sending resumes and resist the temptation of tossing the employment ball back and forth in order to maylay the competition. Believe me gentlemen, both Mr. Ricci and Mr. Santulli have their own way of doing things in this business and the advantage goes to the man who pioneered this industry! Peace out.