Fractional Info...Flight Options or EJA

[flydog]

Insurance at Options doesnt cost $3,000 per year. Its starts at $50 per month without dependents.

Flight Options is also the only fractional with a jumpseat agreement and the only fractional that allows you to live anywhere you want

As far as Options pay matching EJA when the contract is signed who knows. Flight Options raised their light jet FO pay substantially prior to the RTA merger without any reason. Flight Options never had any reason to pay their pilots industry leading pay in the first place so I dont see any reason to doubt than Ken Ricci will meet or exceed any contract EJA gets.

Year 1 Captains pay at EJA is about the same as Year 1 FO pay at EJA. This is per the EJA pilots website

EJA would have to raise their FO pay over 40% and almost double their Year 1 Captain pay just to match Flight Options. This type of salary increase in a contract would be unprecedented and astounding especially considering the fact that EJA lost money last year and they are awash in unsold airplanes including most of their BBJs.

Flight Options +10% would be a lot more realistic but I guess we'll see when a contract is finally signed.

 

[Toad4]

I can see that both pilots for Flight Options and Executive Jet are very vocal and think that each has the best deal. It is nice to see that kind of pride in your employer. I can't say that it goes on much in the cargo world "i.e. never". It seems that the bottom line is that both are fine employers and I should be lucky to be at either.

I have a few questions regarding EJA though. I am under the impression that all EJA aircraft must be less than 5 yrs. old (I'm not sure where I got that). What will happen when the aircraft reached 5 yrs? I am also curious as to customers obligations to buy a new jet. Now, it would seem just through simple common sense that a 5 yr old jet can be bought cheaper than a brand new jet and; IN GENERAL (read don't take this for anymore than it is), will do everything the new one will. I don't now, nor have I ever understood rich people, but it would seem to me that EJA would loose a large market share to Flight Options when it comes time to belly up to the new airplane bar. It also seems that the cost of these used jets should be driven down more by the relative abundance of them. This makes Options sound like the better long term bet, but I have been wrong before.

 

[EJA Capt]

Insurance at Options doesn't cost $3,000 per year. Its starts at $50 per month without dependents.

I did the conversion on the Opts website after the merger. My current situation with wife and kids would have cost $2880/yr at Opts.

Year 1 Captains pay at EJA is about the same as Year 1 FO pay at EJA. This is per the EJA pilots website[/QUOTE]

You might want to look again. 1st year EJ FO is $27,108. 1st year EJ Capt is $37,560. Doesn't look "about the same" to me.
Still low, I know. But we know OUR raise is coming.

...EJA lost money last year and they are awash in unsold airplanes including most of their BBJs. [/QUOTE]

Who keeps telling you guys we have UNSOLD airplanes? Is Ricci passing out the Kool-Aid again? Furthermore, read the fine print on the Berkshire annual report. Netjets US makes money. Netjets Europe is the segment that "looses" money. Don't worry about our BBJs, Boeing owns the unsold aircraft, not us, they are core fleet aircraft anyway. I don't think 4 unsold airplanes in 400 is exactly "awash."


Toad4,
To get back to your question on this thread, Netjets is a great place to be. I don't know where you heard that we are unhappy. I don't think that could be farther from the truth. The only problem with the contract is that it isn't finished. Something of this magnitude takes a lot of time. This contract will set the tone of the fractional industry for years to come. It is not as simple as copying the old contract with new pay figures and adding a few gateways. When the pay issue is settled I have no doubt that you will see quantum leaps in the pay scale. Money aside, keep in mind the quality of life issues. And as always, talk to pilots of each frac in the FBOs, judge for yourself who may be happier.

 

[rufus]

In the last couple of months I have had too many FO and RTA pilots come to me with thier resume. I think that speaks the truth. When was the last time you heard a netjets guy ask a FO pilot for help getting a job. I WILL HELP YOU, NEVER.

 

[Toad4]

Okay, one last question. I know that EJA has domiciles throughout the country. I currnently live in Fort Wayne, IN. Can I continue to live in Fort Wayne and fly for EJA? I know that Flight Options wouldn't be a problem, but I'm not sure about EJA. Thanks again to everyone for their input. I really appreciate it.

 

[Mach92]

Hey its great your asking all these questions on NETJETS. I think what your missing is getting a job here is rather impossible now. What we are being told at NETJETS that all classes are full for the rest of 2002. The adv time for new hires at NETJETS is now over 7000 hours. Just something to think about. I also know uncle Ken(FLOPS) hates unions and anyone trying to or talks about one is fired. IF FLOPS is so great, why do I have no less then 3 or 4 pilots each week asking me "How can I get a job at NETJETS"?

 

[tjsatter]

At NetJets you can live anywhere you want. The midnight before you go on duty however you must be within 100 miles or 3 hours whichever is more restrictive of your gateway. The gateway list is on the web page.

tj

 

[FracPilot]

Toad4,

As you can tell, there are pilots from both companies that absolutely love their job, and others that seem to be bitter about something and feel compelled to lash out at others. EJA has some ex-FO pilots, and FO has some ex-EJA pilots. Before the EJA guys spout off, no these guys that work here were not fired from EJA - they just wanted to make respectable wages.

Your best bet is to talk to pilots on the road and see who is happy and who is not. If I were in your position, I would take a position with the first one that offered me a job. Both have their strong and weak points, but overall the pilots seem to be happy at both companies.

Funny how I never hear in person the kinds of things I read here from EJA guys.

 

[flydog]

Quoted from AIN:

Word on the street last month said NetJets has failed to sell any shares in Boeing Business Jets since the first airplane joined the fleet last year, but the company denies this. An Executive Jet official told AIN that while the market for large aircraft is slow, NetJets has sold some BBJ shares. However, he declined to reveal the number or how recently they were bought. The company now has seven BBJs on strength but apparently few owners to carry in them, an expensive turn of events for the company that started the frax business

 

[highflyer]

Lend an ear for a minute....

How much can you all accomplish by bantering back and forth over each companies strong and weak points. This is child's play...and does not lend itself to building up the aviation industry and our profession as pilots. If you wish to work for NetJets, apply. If you wish to work for Flight Options, apply. I did with both and NetJets called me in 12 days after receiving the application. I did not even get a confirmation letter from Flight Options after sending several resumes. Even our little brother, CitationShares, sent me a nice form letter stating their thanks for my interest! To each his own, but if you want hard facts about money and benefits, go to www.fracstats.com and research for yourself. In the meantime, save some of your typing skills for sending resumes and resist the temptation of tossing the employment ball back and forth in order to maylay the competition. Believe me gentlemen, both Mr. Ricci and Mr. Santulli have their own way of doing things in this business and the advantage goes to the man who pioneered this industry! Peace out.