Found a new forum for General Lee

[FDJ2]

Different companies with very different levels of financial performance. One is making money and subsidizing the losses of the other already, not the other way around.

DAL subsidizes ASA and CMR by picking up many of the costs associated with getting passengers from point A to point B. While ASA/CMR might be profitable, they only pay for their direct operating costs and many of the other costs such as non fleet capex, selling, distribution, depreciation charges are paid by DAL. Since neither ASA or CMR pay for these charges it can hardly be stated that ASA/CMR are profitable operations for DAL. What percent of $500M in non fleet capex or $1.2B in depreciation did ASA/CMR pay? All those costs are shouldered by the mainline.

 

[FDJ2]

According to all published reports, Comair is a profitable entity.

It's easy to be profitable when there is a mainline that not only gives you your passengers, but also pays many of your bills. Comair is profitable because DAL gives you the money to be profitable while picking up many of your expenses. BTW, have you noticed that the most profitable airlines either wouldn't touch an RJ (SWA & JBLU) or are dumping RJ feed because the economics make no sense (Airtran).

 

[lowlycfi]

BTW... you're a CFI... I don't fault that. I started that way too. But when I was a CFI, I didn't pretend to know the in's and outs of the industry. I worked at the airlines for 4 years before any of it began to make any sense.

Wait and see if you feel the same after a few years on the line.

Uh, look at my profile bonehead. In addition to being a CFI I'm also a Flight Attendant. I 've been in the industry for almost 14 years now (as a CSA, a ramp agent, and a flight attendant of which I have been for over 10 years), so I think I know the ins and outs of this industry as well.

I fly on the airlines OFTEN as a crewmember and a passenger. I will agree there is some bad service out there - usually by employees who are in the job for the short term as a means to an end. I also see quite a bit of outstanding service from employees who have made a career of providing CUSTOMER SERVICE to the flying public.

Now, I have to run....I'm off to drag my airline down the road to bankruptcy.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

DAL subsidizes ASA and CMR

Wrong!

there is a mainline that not only gives you your passengers

That's rich!

BTW, have you noticed that the most profitable airlines either wouldn't touch an RJ (SWA & JBLU) or are dumping RJ feed because the economics make no sense (Airtran).

Actually if you had been keeping up with current events, you would have noticed that JBLU has ordered quite a few of them.

All of that is neither here nor there really. Bottom line: We are separate companies with separate situations and we will NOT take pay cuts without them being forced upon us by a bankruptcy judge.

 

[Sniper@YourFeet]

Actually if you had been keeping up with current events, you would have noticed that JBLU has ordered quite a few of them..

EMB-190's are lager than DC-9's that Northwest flies, and they should be paid like something larger than a DC-9 too.

A spade is a spade, an EMB-190 is a mainline jet, and it should not be flown for cheap RJ wages (yes, even Commair wages fall in this category). If pilots are calling them RJ's, then manamgent will have no problem putting RJ pilots with their poor payscales on them too.

As for who subsidizes Commair and ASA, you claim it's not mainline. Well, it's not ASA or Commair, so who does it . . . the toothfairy?

Delta mainline will take concessions (as perhaps they should, given their lack of pairity with their competiton. But don't beleive for a second that everyone else shouldn't take cuts too.

It's always 'we're DCI', its our flying (contract carriers are bas+ard children of Delta right?), we are Delta employees too'. Ok, then, as a Delta employee, you need to know your company is losing $ and needs to cut costs. You, as a Delta employee, should help out.

You gotta' take the good with the bad - sucks, huh?

 

[XRMEFLYER]

EMB-190's are lager than DC-9's that Northwest flies,

They ordered some 170's too. Those and the CRJ-700 have 7 seats less than the original DC-9-100 what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

If pilots are calling them RJ's, then manamgent will have no problem putting RJ pilots with their poor payscales on them too.

Actually their manufacturer are calling them that. Question of semantics anyway?

As for who subsidizes Commair and ASA, you claim it's not mainline. Well, it's not ASA or Commair, so who does it . . . the toothfairy?

Well there you have it.

But don't beleive for a second that everyone else shouldn't take cuts too.

Actually I do believe that and am far from being alone.

You, as a Delta employee, should help out.

No thanks, not interested. Already doing that by doing what I do for what I do it for!

You gotta' take the good with the bad - sucks, huh?

Yeah it does

 

[General Lee]

Xreme's one liners are cool. He also thinks Comair earns every penny and profits--without Delta's help. He is a team player--no doubt---just like a military man!

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

Extreme, your comebacks are great, too bad they lack substance or basis in reality.

CMR only pays for its direct operating costs, DAL pays all the rest of the costs.

CMR does not fly any of its own code, DAL provides all the code for CMR to fly.

Neither SWA, JBLU or in the near future Airtran want anything to do with a CRJ. Could there be a correlation between the poor economics of the CRJ and the profitability of the companies who use them and those who avoid them like the plague?

 

[On Your Six]

Accepting Peer-Level Wages....

Why shouldn't Comair and ASA pilots be paid what their peers at MESA are paid? Seems like everyone is attempting to make apples-to-apples comparisons here...

So, let's have Comair and ASA pilots agree to MESA levels while the mainline guys accept 30%+ cuts (to AA or UAL levels for comparable equipment)... That's only fair, right?

Why not MESA levels? You're leaving a lot of money on the table by not flying for MESA levels... Shouldn't Comair and MESA CRJ Captains be paid the same for the same equipment and same number of hours, etc.?

 

[MedFlyer]

They ordered some 170's too. Those and the CRJ-700 have 7 seats less than the original DC-9-100 what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Actually their manufacturer are calling them that. Question of semantics anyway?

Well there you have it.

Actually I do believe that and am far from being alone.

No thanks, not interested. Already doing that by doing what I do for what I do it for!

Yeah it does?

JetBlue only ordered 190's and no one calls the 190 a regional jet. Go to the Embraer website, they do not call them regional jets.

I agree with you that at this time there is no reason for Comair to give concessions. As long as they keep telling Comair how profitable we are, I don't see concessions coming. If they wanted concessions, they'd find a way to put Comair in the red.

 

[General Lee]

Medflyer,

You guys not getting any aircraft in the RFP should have been a red flag for you. As long as they think you are too expensive---you will get nothing and like it. We are under the same restraint.

Right now they have bigger fish to fry (us)---but after they get some cuts they will go to the other groups and then eventually hit you guys. They will give every new RJ to other groups that will agree to fly them for less. You guys probably could have had the Dojos from ACA---but you wouldn't budge. Unlike you guys--we are actually willing to sit down and talk about cuts---but one CEO isn't budging either.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[P38JLightning]

you down wid RFP? (yeah, you know me)

Medflyer,

>>You guys not getting any aircraft in the RFP should have been a red flag for you. As long as they think you are too expensive---you will get nothing and like it. We are under the same restraint.

>>You guys probably could have had the Dojos from ACA---but you wouldn't budge


General,

Please don't tell me you actually believe any of these recent RFP jets were EVER going to Comair?

Just as a reminder here's how it all went down:

Delta told us to give 8 million a year in cuts and we will get all EIGHTY TWO "growth jets" and will get ALL FUTURE DCI flying. No we won't put it in writing, but we promise you.

Then we said no to concessions by their deadline. Still they "offered" us ALL 45 (hey what happened to the 82?) now "RFP growth jets". They also told ASA there was basicaly NO WAY they were going to get any unless they exited section 6 right away, because Delta NEEDED to know their costs as an absolute precondition to sending any ASA's way.

ASA told Delta management to pound sand, yet they got "awarded" 25 "growth jets" anyway. Sounds fishy?

Not really because those 25 jets they "got awarded" will still barely (not even) bring them up to Comair's size. THEY WERE GOING TO GET THOSE PLANES ANYWAY!

As for the jets Chautauqua "won", they were agreed upon by October of LAST YEAR and prior. The only RFP jets that were anyone's to actually bid for MAY have been the 7 that SkyWest got. That was the only wildcard in the whole "phantom 82" growth jet lie.

IF Skyway gets the DoJets, it will primarily be because they are currently the only operator of that equipment in the country (besides ACA). And the Company has not put us on notice that it would like to negotiate a 32 seat turbo jet pay rate. Our contract, contrary to some wishful thinking out there, does NOT have a pay rate for anything other than 40/44/50 seat CRJ's and 70 seat CRJ's. That's it. Anything else would be REQUIRED to be negotiated, but the Company hasn't even asked. Because they already know where those jets (or DCI airframe lift components, if they're not DoJo afterall) are going.

Sure they want pay cuts from all of us. But don't believe for one minute that any of this RFP crap is legit. Maybe years down the road, but for '03, '04, '05 and probably '06 Delta is putting jets where they knew all along they were going to go.

Except for the phantom 7. Maybe those really were up for grabs. Hardly worth opening up one's PWA to "bid on" though, is it?

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Unlike some here I am man enough to admit when I am wrong. The 190s are not in fact called regional jets by anyone and JBLU did not order any 170s.

FDJ2,
We will just have to agree to disagree on who is paying for whom.

Generally,
Your platitudes and kind words about your furloughed buddies do not make you a team player. If this business is the sum total of your experience as a member of a team and what that REALLY is, then you are way out of your depth and should keep your comments about military men to yourself because like so many topics that you feel compelled to bump your gums about, you don't know the first thing about it.

 

[General Lee]

P38,

These are the same people we are dealing with----with the comakazi (sp?) attitude---all or nothing---pay cuts from us. We could offer them help RIGHT NOW, when they need it the most, but NO--they want it all. Kinda scary! Banzi!!!!!!!


Xream-me,

How do you know? You know nothing about me---only what I allow you to see. I do a lot for our current furloughs, sponsoring some, golfing with others (on me), and contributing to their Cobra and furlough funds. What else can I do for my TEAM? Tell Me? I also contributed (along with everyone else at ALPA) to your strike fund. I am a team player, and not because I have to be....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[XRMEFLYER]

golfing with others (on me)

That was funny, I needed a good laugh tonight. Thanks!
That pretty much sums up my position that you really don't know the first thing about what a team is and to hear you carry on about it just makes those of us who do want to puke.

 

[FDJ2]

FDJ2,
We will just have to agree to disagree on who is paying for whom.

That's cool, nothing wrong with that. Fly safe.

 

[On Your Six]

Xreamflyer,

You are a class act - I am sure you are a pleasure to fly with. In case you haven't noticed over the last couple years, General Lee has been a major advocate of the Delta furloughees - nobody else talks about them on this forum... He seems like a major team player to me. I just wish he could support us at my airline.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Six,
Thank you for the kind words. I am sure you are real hoot yourself. And yes I have noticed what an advocate the private is for his boys. All talk!

 

[General Lee]

Xream-me,

What? I try to go out and help some furloughs and get their minds off of their plight for a few hours. Whatever dude---you have lost all credibility here. I am glad you had a good laugh Sarge.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[XRMEFLYER]

What? I try to go out and help some furloughs and get their minds off of their plight for a few hours. Whatever dude

Waa Waa Waa! Put some vagisil on it Mary!

you have lost all credibility here

With whom, you? I can live with that.

Sarge.

That is Sergeant to you oxygen thief! Now beat your face!