Former America West Pilots send out political flyer to East Pilots

[HalinTexas]

You're from Texas.

You'll forget the Alamo sooner than the East or West will forget.

Then shut 'er down. Neither side can defeat Santa Anna separately.

The Alamo was held out, or valiantly lost, by men who knew they couldn't win the battle. Who's willing to die for this?

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

in before mcdu!

 

[Mud Eagle]

the ultimate sacrifice of being on the street while all the former AWA pilots stayed employed.

"The ultimate sacrifice"? Really?

 

[Bringupthebird]

How does being told you don't have a job translate into "the ultimate sacrifice"? Paper cut opening the letter?

Take a trip to Arlington and try convincing someone how you paid the "ultimate sacrifice".

No wonder the "Ultimate Drama king Cleary" has such a devoted fan club.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Then shut 'er down. Neither side can defeat Santa Anna separately.

The funny thing is, and you're gonna laugh when you hear this, is that there is no Santa Anna in all this, just some folks who can make really convincing shadow puppets and a bunch of dopes that are scared of them.

 

[C Festerpuss]

I aksed my rep, bout this here thingy from Leonidas. He's got real good readin skills. He scrutinated this here thing real good and he sez....


An interesting exercise in creative writing with an emphasis on Creative…

I have read the LEONIDAS LLC, Issue two, with great interest. I invite everyone to read this carefully! We are in the national election season and obfuscation half truths and outright lies are flying around in the mail and on the airwaves.

Let’s apply a little critical analysis to this latest missive form LEONIDAS, LLC.

In 2007 the JNC was within weeks of completing a labor contract…..
Really, there were in fact many sections closed but they were not close on the main economic issues including Pay and Scope, Sick and Disability. This was prior to the experienced airline pilot act (age 65) and there have since been changes to the company’s proposal on the disability / sick issue.

At that time the proposed A330 Captain rate was $210.00/hr.
HOLD THE PHONE!!!. The ALPA proposal was for $210.00. The company proposal, and it has not changed one bit since mid 2007, was and is and has always been,$184.00. Look at the graph on page one labeled Kirby Proposed Rates its in red and it clearly shows $184.00

All the data and analysis on this section of the LEONIDAS pamphlet are based on an old ALPA proposal. The current USAPA proposal, available on the web site, is $229.77 reflecting the gains of other groups. All this comparison on the first section of the LEONIDAS pamphlet is pure B.S.

If you start with bogus numbers you can attempt to prove anything. All the numbers being touted are based on a false number and therefore all the numbers required to increase your standards are also false. The fact is the NAC has increased “the ask” to deal with the actualities of the market place. Go look at the USAPA web site.

THE COMPANY HAS NOT MOVED OFF THE KIRBY PROPOSAL OF $184.OO.



THE REAL TRUTH ABOUR EAST UPGRADES THRUOGH ATTRITION!

East retirements do not create 162 Captain Slots for East pilots since 45 of these slots are First Officers.

That could be true but what type of F/0 are they? Take a look at the latest bid, Nov. 2010 10-06. The bottom PHL A319 Captain is #2116. Look at the F/O Slots on the A330 and B676 Intl and see what their numbers are. CLT B767 F/O’s 38 are senior to #2116. CLT A330 F/O’s – all but two,(2), are senior to #2116. PHL A330, 158 of 184 are senior to #2116. PHL B767 F/O’s 73 of 130 are senior to #2116.

Bottom line, watch out for simplistic analysis. Senior A330 F/O’s earn more than bottom reserve group two captains, on a monthly basis. They have a better working schedule particularly if they are block-holders. It’s not just about upgrades it’s about pay and quality of life and the truth of this fact are show in how individual East pilots bid. The truth trumps the glossy pamphlet from LEONIDAS.

ARE SIX CAPTAIN SEATS WORTH AN INDEFINITE DELAY?

Let’s see. “Between 2012 and 2015 704 pilots will retire system wide”. “Under separate operations, the East Pilots will capture 455 Captain positions. (704- 455 = 249 F/O retirements.) However what they don’t tell you is that if you go back and look at the number of F/O’s on the list above the bottom Group II Captain spot in PHL there are 332 wide body F/O’s slots senior to the bottom A319 Capt in PHL. They are there by choice.

This is a crap analysis.


100% of East PILOTS WIN WITH DATE OF HIRE.

This is the analysis of a biased judge on a case that has been thrown out of court and even that judge, the Hon Neil Wake has stated that this case is dismissed in its entirety.

The LEONIDAS analysis does not take into account any of the CONDITIONS AND RESTRICTIONS will be included in the contract. There is a fence between East and West and East pilots cannot cross over and displace West pilots from their positions. West pilots can bid East as soon as their DOH allows them to hold a position they desire.

On the day after a DOH contract is signed, a West pilot going to work will see no difference in his situation. He will bid in the same spot he did the day before. He will hold the same seat and bid the same type of trip.

On the day after a DOH contract is signed an East pilot going to work will see no difference in his situation, except for more pay, which he deserves. He will bid the same spot he did the day before. He will hold the same seat and bid the same type of trip.

FIGURES DON'T LIE BUT LIARS CAN FIGURE!

 

[doh]

How many here (non involved in cactus) have actually read the nicolau award...it is very interesting...a must read.

Put a check mark next to my name.

 

[say again]

East and west sharing a flightdeck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnrTq9Y-uJY&feature=related

hahahaha, that was great.

 

[Bringupthebird]

If USEast had lived up to their word, they would probably have $210/hr and then could have voted out ALPA if they were still angry. As it is they have no money and no unity to get any.

GO USAPA!!! anyone? anyone?

 

[becket]

100% of East PILOTS WIN WITH DATE OF HIRE.

And 100% of the West LOSES!!!!

That is not a "fair and equitable integration" as mandated by your prior CBA and the EFFING LAW.

The East is in charge of jack shizz. 100% of the East ALREADY won because you still have your lousy, crappy JOB thanks to the saints in PHX.

 

[Thebadcat1313]

"ARE SIX CAPTAIN SEATS WORTH AN INDEFINITE DELAY?

Let’s see. “Between 2012 and 2015 704 pilots will retire system wide”. “Under separate operations, the East Pilots will capture 455 Captain positions. (704- 455 = 249 F/O retirements.) However what they don’t tell you is that if you go back and look at the number of F/O’s on the list above the bottom Group II Captain spot in PHL there are 332 wide body F/O’s slots senior to the bottom A319 Capt in PHL. They are there by choice.

This is a crap analysis."

Crap analysis, eh? Do you have a better one? Didn't think so.

The fact is, almost all of the retirements in the next five years on the west side are captains, while only about 2/3 of the retirements in that timeframe on the east come from the left seat. But, under the Nic award, east pilots are just as entitled to vacated west positions as they are to east positions. So, east pilots can potentially capture 2/3 of west AND east captain positions as they open up under the Nic award, since the Nic is effectively a 2/3 ratio down the the former furloughees. The net effect is that there is essentially NO difference in the number of jobs the east can capture under the Nic vs separate operations.

 

[PCL_128]

It's in the arbitrator's hands and he'll answer when he wants to. Not trying to be snarky but that's the answer. He's having some health issues and that could cause more delay.

Who is the arbitrator for the case?

Put a check mark next to my name.

Same here.

 

[TWA Dude]

Kasher

 

[Dizel8]

I'll need the check mark too.

 

[A-V-8]

How many here (non involved in cactus) have actually read the nicolau award...it is very interesting...a must read.

I have.

 

[Saabslime]

On the day after a DOH contract is signed, a West pilot going to work will see no difference in his situation. He will bid in the same spot he did the day before. He will hold the same seat and bid the same type of trip.

On the day after a DOH contract is signed an East pilot going to work will see no difference in his situation, except for more pay, which he deserves. He will bid the same spot he did the day before. He will hold the same seat and bid the same type of trip.

FIGURES DON'T LIE BUT LIARS CAN FIGURE!

Funny how they Never mention what the landscape would look like under a DOH list should there be additional furloughs down the road (always just around the corner in this industry). Your C & R's don't mean squat without an equal sharing of the pain in that scenario ya jackwagons.

 

[cactusboy53]

Well

Today I received a political flyer .......

And finally - how did Leonidas, LLC get my home address? Maybe the PHX rep could ask for an investigation about that?

Metrojet

BTW, USAPA sent out all kinds of information to our homes prior to and just after the election. How did they get my home address and telephone prior to my completing an application (over one year after inception)??

Could you investigate that while you're at it?

Thanks.

 

[C Festerpuss]

I aksed my friend bout this here allegation and he said it must a been the gobenrment what done it. You sees here that once USAPY got the cards in and there was an election then USAPY got all the names of the crafts and classes and such.

That's probably where they got it the gobenrment done gave it to them.



NATIONAL MEDIATION BOARD
REPRESENTATION MANUAL
Revised Text Effective ---- September 17, 2010

NOTICE
This Manual provides general procedural guidance to the National Mediation Board’s staff with respect to the processing of representation cases before the NMB. Such procedural guidance is not required by or subject to the Administrative Procedure Act. The provisions of this Manual are neither obligatory upon the Members of the Board nor do they constitute the exclusive procedure for the NMB’s investigation of representation matters pursuant to the Railway Labor Act.

Mary L. Johnson General Counsel
_____________________________________________________________________________


2.4 List of Potential Eligible Voters and Signature Samples

The carrier must serve one (1) copy of a system-wide alphabetized list of potential eligible voters on the Investigator and serve one (1) copy on each participant’s representative. Even if a participant is contesting single transportation status (see Section 19.0), they are required to produce a list in conformity with the section. The NMB requires the carrier to provide a copy of the alphabetized list in Microsoft Excel format to the NMB only. The carrier should send a separate alphabetized list in PDF to each of the participants.

The list of potential eligible voters must include all individuals in the craft or class with an employee-employer relationship as of the cut-off date. The list must identify each employee’s full name, the job title, and the duty station or location.

The carrier must also provide the NMB with one (1) hard copy of legible, alphabetized signature samples for each employee on the list. Examples of acceptable signature samples include tax-withholding forms and employment and insurance applications. The alphabetized signature samples must be in the same order as the names on the list of potential eligible voters.
2.5 Delivery of Documents

The list of potential eligible voters and signature samples must be delivered to the NMB by the deadline set by the General Counsel. When there is an on-site investigation, the list and signature samples must be delivered to the Investigator upon arrival on the carrier’s property.

 

[becket]

It's hysterical how bent out of shape the Narcassistic A-hole East pilots get at a little pamphlet. BFD. Don't read it. I think it's more about being faced with the truth and their total inability to control all the information that's getting to them. Maybe it's the realization of how badly they've hurt all the pilots of us air...and their families.

 

[TWA Dude]

My guess is they'll try to complain to Judge Silver about. Should be fun to watch.

(FYI to those who didn't hear, a poster on a private message board used by AWA pilots joked how he had a cousin on the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. Shortly thereafter USAPA's lawyer $eham filed a complaint with the court alleging bias. USAPians are truly men of genius.)

 

[iflyhigh]

Ok guys if the phamplet upsets you that much throw it away. Its just another side of the story. What USAPA states is slanted toward their view, what AOL states is slanted toward their view. Now read and listen to both sides and make your own decison.

If you are so upset about a piece of paper it insane. If you don't like what it says fine, don't read it. If you 100% agree with USAPA fine. Again the phamplet is another opinion of the events.

Everyone in life knows their are two side to every story and somewhere in the middle is the truth. This is no different.

 

[iflyhigh]

Just remember that as the negotiating for a contract continues to be dragged out, and if the East losses the Arb on snap back, than everyone losses.

The raise that you would of got in 2007/2008 can not be recouped in the future. Time value of money. The company is not going offer say 40% raises just because it took 6 or 7 years to get a contract. Thus the group is going to continually lag behind the rest of the industry. The contract you get in a year or two will be good for 4 to 5 years and will not recoup the last 6 years of wage increases.

Continue to fight guys, I know I don't think I will be doing it for much longer. My life is more than throwing stones at the East hoping for some to move, or for the West to give up or weak management to step up to the plate. I see this airline following behind on contract improvements, growth and eventually if oil runs up again going out of business. Time will tell, and you guys will still be fighting.

Just something to think about.

 

[Capt.Underpants]

Comical

West pilots being called scum for sending out a pamphlet, while East pilots continue to disregard obligations they agreed to in writing and attempt to steal what is not theirs. Classic!