• NC Software is proud to announce the release of APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook version 10.0. Click here to view APDL on the Apple App store and install now.
  • Logbook Pro for Apple iOS version 8.1 is now available on the App Store. Major update including signature endorsements and dark/light theme support. Click here to install now.

Form 10-Q/A for PINNACLE AIRLINES CORP RE Colgan Air

DoinTime

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
2,523
Total Time
6000+
They taught us that at ALPA leadership training in Herndon also.....They taught us not to ever question ALPA in public...little role playing skit with Beebe and a few others.....The funny thing is that 2 of the role playing actors were USAir ALPA folks....worked real well for them....

I don't "incite rebellion" or "foster division"....ALPA does a fine job of that by dividing pilots as "regional" and "mainline".....I just question authority....It is healthy to question authority....

That leadership conference must have been right before your fellow pilots recalled you, right?
 

PCL_128

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Posts
15,296
Total Time
5000+
Your absolutely correct....Now can you convince Rez and PCL128?

He'll have to get educated about the RLA before he can convince me about anything. Just more crew room lawyer regurgitated nonsense. The average pilot doesn't know the difference between the RLA and the NRA. Sad.
 

JoeMerchant

ASA pilot
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Posts
6,353
Total Time
14000+
The average pilot doesn't know the difference between the RLA and the NRA. Sad.

...on that I agree.....however the same average pilot has no idea what goes on with ALPA behind the scenes.....they would be amazed at what happens behind closed doors....
 

PCL_128

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Posts
15,296
Total Time
5000+
...on that I agree.....however the same average pilot has no idea what goes on with ALPA behind the scenes.....they would be amazed at what happens behind closed doors....

That's just politics. The truth is, even the average homeowner would also be amazed at what happens behind the scenes of their home owners' association. Get a group of people together in an organization, and politics happens. Politics is messy, no matter how big or how small the organization is. The key is to learn how to work within the system. You never figured that out, Joey.
 

sinkrate

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Posts
232
Total Time
tomuch
so.....about Colgan

The short version is you are either going to be merged into another carrier or shut down in bankruptcy. Colgan is burning through Pinnacles cash way to fast. Which means if Pinnacle can't acquire another profitable carrier to merge Colgan into (Mesaba? Commute Air?, Peidmont?), or sell Colgan, they will park your Saabs and and fold the Q's into Pinnacle. They may need to use the chapter 11 bankruptcy process to park all of the Saabs. There are no new contracts to bid on and there won't be any in the future - the industry is shrinking and trying to shed contracts, codeshares, and aircraft. The only other option is to put Colgan into chapter 7 and shut it down. Since Pinnacle corp totes the notes for the Q's they won't do that unless they have a buyer for the AC prior to the BK. In that case the pilots won't go with the AC.

It is called 'merge or die' and the entire industry is looking down that barrel. A student of airline history would tell you history is repeating itself - again.
 

CoATP

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 25, 2005
Posts
476
Total Time
10k+

suupah

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Posts
1,779
Total Time
859
The short version is you are either going to be merged into another carrier or shut down in bankruptcy. Colgan is burning through Pinnacles cash way to fast. Which means if Pinnacle can't acquire another profitable carrier to merge Colgan into (Mesaba? Commute Air?, Peidmont?), or sell Colgan, they will park your Saabs and and fold the Q's into Pinnacle. They may need to use the chapter 11 bankruptcy process to park all of the Saabs. There are no new contracts to bid on and there won't be any in the future - the industry is shrinking and trying to shed contracts, codeshares, and aircraft. The only other option is to put Colgan into chapter 7 and shut it down. Since Pinnacle corp totes the notes for the Q's they won't do that unless they have a buyer for the AC prior to the BK. In that case the pilots won't go with the AC.

It is called 'merge or die' and the entire industry is looking down that barrel. A student of airline history would tell you history is repeating itself - again.

thats the picture i am seeing unless something major takes place.
 

PCL_128

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Posts
15,296
Total Time
5000+
Yes...sad: National Labor Relations Act (NLRA)

Um, yeah, I think you should read CoATP's post. He gets it. The average pilot is so ignorant of labor law (and politics in general) that he couldn't explain the difference between a gun rights organization and the very labor law that affects his entire career. I could throw in any law or organization in place of "NRA," and the statement remains accurate. Pilots are woefully uninformed on anything related to their careers or how things work in Washington. But if you'd like to have a discussion on the differences between the RLA and the NLRA, then I'm up for it. I just hope you know more than the average pilot, otherwise it will be a very one-sided conversation. :rolleyes:
 

Yodafly

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 1, 2005
Posts
129
Total Time
5000+
The information on this board just keeps getting more and more incorrect

Colgan has capacity agreements with all our carriers except us air

yes that means saabs for continental and united too as well as the Q,s

some of our us air flying is subsidized by EAS as well

keep your wishes for other pilots failures to yourself
 

DoinTime

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
2,523
Total Time
6000+
The information on this board just keeps getting more and more incorrect

Colgan has capacity agreements with all our carriers except us air

yes that means saabs for continental and united too as well as the Q,s

some of our us air flying is subsidized by EAS as well

keep your wishes for other pilots failures to yourself

Like I said on page one. Reference form 10Q/A page 13 for the exacting details of Colgan's service agreements straight from the mouths of the board of directors. The 15 Q-400s for Continental are the only aircraft operated under a capacity purchase service agreement. It would take more than the losses from the USAir flying to total nearly $5 million/quarter in red ink.
 

suupah

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Posts
1,779
Total Time
859
The information on this board just keeps getting more and more incorrect

Colgan has capacity agreements with all our carriers except us air

yes that means saabs for continental and united too as well as the Q,s

some of our us air flying is subsidized by EAS as well

keep your wishes for other pilots failures to yourself

skim through pages 11-12 of pncl's 07 financial report

everything with the exception of the Q is pro rated agreements. who told you otherwise?
 

LanceAir

I'm a Registered User
Joined
Apr 11, 2006
Posts
125
Total Time
> 250
I would just like to personally thank the North East Saab guys, (alot now in the Q400), for being so retarded and ignorant of the industry for which we work, that they decided "not" to vote last year.

Because of your willingness to give management a "chance," we have only made progress in losing our work rules, and losing the ability to protect ourselves in times like these.

And not to be out-done by last years buffoonery, these same pilots, who last year didn't understand what the words "scope" and "duty-rigs" meant, now want union representation...but instead of making it easier and safer for everyone involved, they now want to vote in Teamsters and make it nice and complicated when we get into merger talks with PNCL ALPA.

You guys and gals are the best! When Buddy and uncle Phil decide that furloughs out of seniority make more financial sense, don't be surprised if I personally thank you by letting you know youre number 1!

:uzi: :smash: :puke: :angryfire
 

Afraid to Fly

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Posts
65
I would just like to personally thank the North East Saab guys, (alot now in the Q400), for being so retarded and ignorant of the industry for which we work, that they decided "not" to vote last year.

Because of your willingness to give management a "chance," we have only made progress in losing our work rules, and losing the ability to protect ourselves in times like these.

And not to be out-done by last years buffoonery, these same pilots, who last year didn't understand what the words "scope" and "duty-rigs" meant, now want union representation...but instead of making it easier and safer for everyone involved, they now want to vote in Teamsters and make it nice and complicated when we get into merger talks with PNCL ALPA.

You guys and gals are the best! When Buddy and uncle Phil decide that furloughs out of seniority make more financial sense, don't be surprised if I personally thank you by letting you know youre number 1!

:uzi: :smash: :puke: :angryfire

Best post ever about Colgan on here. Very well said.
 

70-SS

American Made
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Posts
333
Total Time
?
I second that. I can't believe the level of buffoonery of many of the NE pilots. They hate ALPA because of what happened at USairways east. :rolleyes:
I think the boys in ORF were part of the 155 and several of the NE boys were on the OC.
 
Top