Ford & GM execs beg for money

[B52GUNNER]

Ford & Gm execs on corporate jets to beg for money.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/19/autos.ceo.jets/index.html

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Yeah, they all flew to DC in their private jets, spending tens of thousands of dollars....Yeah, let me be the first to loan them $10.00...Piss off...

 

[RNObased]

Yeah, they all flew to DC in their private jets, spending tens of thousands of dollars....Yeah, let me be the first to loan them $10.00...Piss off...

Do you really think that the $20,000 or so to fly down there is a lot of money?? You need to wrap your mind around the fact that it isn't. This is the way these guys travel, get over it, move past it.

There is no guarentee that they would have got there on the airlines, then everyone would be saying why didn't they use the jet??

These guys are in a no win situation, having to ask for money from Barney Frank (the idiot), must be like sending your daughter out on a date with Ted Bundy.

The part I find funny, is that they handed money over to their Wall Street and banking buddies with half the fuss this is causing. Washington can actually seem like they are doing something, the auto industry should have came to Washington next week, won't have been that big of deal, everyone would have to go home for Turkey Day. Let's the new stations take a break from what loser Obama is going to appoint today.

FYI this thread is in the wrong section, should be in the corporate section.

 

[B52GUNNER]

Sure wrong place but just something to look at. Could have used a frac.

 

[xrated]

Do you really think that the $20,000 or so to fly down there is a lot of money?? You need to wrap your mind around the fact that it isn't. This is the way these guys travel, get over it, move past it.

It's not about the money, it's the priciple. When you sit before the average American tax payer and ask for a hand out, you may want to look like you need said handout. You try to tell the guy who is out of work and will see some of his taxes going to put gas in a GV to "move past it".

There is no guarentee that they would have got there on the airlines, then everyone would be saying why didn't they use the jet??

Blah blah blah...Leave a day earlier. They would have got there. Heck, they could have driven.

These guys are in a no win situation, having to ask for money from Barney Frank (the idiot), must be like sending your daughter out on a date with Ted Bundy.

True, but showing up in a Private Jet is tackey.

The part I find funny, is that they handed money over to their Wall Street and banking buddies with half the fuss this is causing. Washington can actually seem like they are doing something, the auto industry should have came to Washington next week, won't have been that big of deal, everyone would have to go home for Turkey Day. Let's the new stations take a break from what loser Obama is going to appoint today.

Not sure where you've been, but McCain was the looser.

FYI this thread is in the wrong section, should be in the corporate section.

I think people in this section will understand

 

[RNObased]

I think people in this section will understand

Xrated,
I'm not going to argue with you, it will do no good.

Arguing with someone on the internet is like running in the special olympics, even if you win, you are still a retard.

These guys travel this way, end of story. Accept it or not.

FYI check your spelling: Looser... Huh.

 

[xrated]

Let's the new stations take a break from what loser Obama is going to appoint today.

Uh oh.....care to explain this stinker? Can we at least write a grammatically correct sentence before we criticize spelling?

Pot, let me introduce you to Kettle.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

These guys travel this way, end of story. Accept it or not.

Then when enough tax payers contact their congressmen and put a tight leash on the Big Three bailout or reject it entirely... we can say.... End of story, accept it or not....

 

[transpac]

Do you really think that the $20,000 or so to fly down there is a lot of money?? You need to wrap your mind around the fact that it isn't. This is the way these guys travel, get over it, move past it.

They can travel any way they wish as long as they and their stockholders pay for it. But, the taxpayer might look at it differently when they're asked to pony up. Someone on the news said it was like a panhandler wearing Guccis.

 

[William Holiday]

HA, HA.....That's rich, congress putin the smash on these guys, when their lack of oversight got us into this mess to begin with. Give me a break ! I'm gonna go toss now.

 

[doh]

Maybe we should have them tighten their belt if they are loosing so much money. I have nothing against their mode of transportation. Indeed, as lousy as the airlines are, I think they are acting for the best. However, they need to fix the mess they made themselves.

 

[fob727]

They can travel any way they wish as long as they and their stockholders pay for it. But, the taxpayer might look at it differently when they're asked to pony up. Someone on the news said it was like a panhandler wearing Guccis.

Pony up??? Do some research...it's a loan. Much like the gave Chrysler years ago. The only company they are GIVING money to is AIG.

 

[gunfyter]

Congress is the last that should lecture on fiscal responsibility.

 

[RNObased]

Uh oh.....care to explain this stinker? Can we at least write a grammatically correct sentence before we criticize spelling?

Pot, let me introduce you to Kettle.

Ohh, you got me with that zinger.

 

[transpac]

Pony up??? Do some research...it's a loan. Much like the gave Chrysler years ago. The only company they are GIVING money to is AIG.

A loan generally has an expectation of repayment. Unless the auto industry sheds costs and renegotiates their respective UAW contracts, they'll soon be tits up with or without the 25B.

 

[skiandsurf]

I dont have a problem with the private jets, this keeps people employed, and they probably flew in with a handful of people on each jet.

But, I would like to see these CEOs pay come down to no more than 6x that of the average plant worker (was it the Ford CEO that made $35 million last year?).

 

[NJAPLT]

We all see the advantages of General Aviation, but the general public just doesn't understand.

I submit that a company as large as any of the three automakers (with all of their plants and other assets) has to use general aviation (Fractional, Charter, or Owned), due to the lack of places the airlines go. (How many GA vs Airline Airport in the US alone, never mind the entire world?)

In addition, the excessive travel times caused by airline hub-and-spoke system vs direct flights, and the productivity of the executives who can't perform there work from an airliner.

I'm sure anyone who has read the NBAA information doesn't see these business aircraft as just a luxury for a fortune 500 international corporation, but that's the misperception of the general US taxpayer.

These guys are in a no win situation, and several of the news organizations and politicians saw the opportunity to bash them in a typical class warfare fashion.

I would love someone to list the private flights Barney Frank has taken in the last 10 years to conduct his "business" in congress, and who paid for them.

One of these chowderhead reporters on CNN scoffed when one of the analysts they were interviewing said that one of the reasons that they fly private jets is for security. I think the reporter commented that they should have at least shared a jet. This idiot didn't even think what would happen to the economy if a plane crashed with multiple industry CEO's.

(I'm sure most everyone who reads the board knows that most major companies prohibit multiple executives from flying together just in case of a crash, as the entire top level of a corporation could be wiped out.)

I'm not surprised that they didn't talk about the hotels that the executives stay in. I mean why go to a good 5 star hilton when there is a Motel 6 a few miles away..... (Could it be that the reporters and congress members don't stay in Motel 6's, but in the same types of hotels as the executives they are bashing?)

Class warfare at it's finest, and none of this has any relevance to if the auto industry should get a bailout or not. (Bread and Circuses, people.)

 

[say again]

Hey guys, I'm in debt, would ya mind bailing me out??

 

[RNObased]

They can travel any way they wish as long as they and their stockholders pay for it. But, the taxpayer might look at it differently when they're asked to pony up. Someone on the news said it was like a panhandler wearing Guccis.

Just how do you think that the banking execs and wall street guys went to Washington, when they came crying for money. The Delta shuttle out of LGA?? Doubtful. Even if the company goes into bankruptcy, I bet at least one or two of the jets stay. Shareholders don't want their CEOs on the airlines.

 

[NJAPLT]

Hey guys, I'm in debt, would ya mind bailing me out??

That's my point, a corporate jet is a tool, just the same as a computer, a factory, etc. All of the automakers have a corporate fleet, but this has absolutely nothing to do with the real question, "Should the government bail out the auto industry?"

Reporting like this gives the News industry a bad name.

 

[gret]

What would have been the reaction if
at least one of these guys had driven one of their cars to the hearings? They would have been heros!

What were they thinking?

They are idiots!

 

[fob727]

That's my point, a corporate jet is a tool, just the same as a computer, a factory, etc. All of the automakers have a corporate fleet, but this has absolutely nothing to do with the real question, "Should the government bail out the auto industry?"

Reporting like this gives the News industry a bad name.

With 6 million jobs at stake, I would say yes.

 

[o2bflyn]

I think people in this section will understand

How do you think the financial CEOs got to Washington.....that's right they didn't go, they had all already resigned and got million dollar payouts.

If anyone in the world thinks that (let's go supper high ball here) $100,000 is going to save even one of the Big 3 you are crazy.

Leave the fact they used corporate aircraft alone. If you want to critize them, talk about how they ran each of their respective companies into the ground.

 

[o2bflyn]

What would have been the reaction if
at least one of these guys had driven one of their cars to the hearings? They would have been heros!

What were they thinking?

They are idiots!

They would not have been heros.....they would have been late.

Do you honeslty think that would have made a difference?

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Here's my beef...

I fly one of them there fancy Gulfstreams but I have to say that once the government starts spending my tax money to bail out corporate America, all bets are off and they can park one or two of the Gulfstreams. They can have the flight department, but if it can be proven the fractional or charter model will save the company $ and still provide the transportation needs... bye bye flight department.

It drives me nuts when I see a G plane skipping up the east coast on a 1.5 hour flight with 2 paxs in it. That's what God made King Airs for. And if you really love airplanes and you're a tree hugger, that is what God made the TBM or Pilatus for.

Wolf

 

[xrated]

If anyone in the world thinks that (let's go supper high ball here) $100,000 is going to save even one of the Big 3 you are crazy.

Leave the fact they used corporate aircraft alone. If you want to critize them, talk about how they ran each of their respective companies into the ground.

You can relax, we know stopping travel on corporate jets won't save the Big three. Again, It's not the dollar amount, It's the priciple. When you are coming to (to coin a phrase from Palin) Joe the taxpayer who earns $35k a year, you just may want to show a little more cooth.

Lets say a very good friend of yours get laid off. He's in a jam and comes to you for a $2000 dollar loan so he can pay the mortgage. You're good for it and you're willing to help out. He comes over to collect and he's driving a brand new Corvette that has a $600 a month payment. Will getting rid of the ride save the house? No! But it looks bad. I may be out of line, but I for one would be a little put off.

Now I realize this is the Fractional board and people here fly private jets for a living and maybe we're all a little sensitive about it.

I have very little faith or trust in the CEO at my company. While there is no question he could afford to fly on private jets, he shows confidence in the product and flys coach. Maybe the Hot Shots at the Big three should do the same and drive next time. LOL

 

[B52GUNNER]

Well I did not want to start a a pi$$ing contest. I just wanted to show a couple things..

1. The media will never understand aviation. They only report what they think will make the biggest impact for a story.

2. The average taxpayer does not know about corporate aviation or airlines. All they know is they buy a ticket and sit in cramped coach.

3. With the way things are going right now with people loosing jobs (me included) the perspective of all these high paid execs running a company into the ground and then begging for money is too much for a lot of people.

I'll get recalled or find another job. Some people don't have that going for them and just want to lash out at something

 

[Publishers]

What most do not mention is that these guys have this in the employment contracts. One even has his wife can use it.

 

[transpac]

Regardless of any other factor, flying to a bailout hearing in a Gulfstream was incredibily stupid. If these CEOs aren't any smarter than this they need to be replaced before a dime of taxpayer money is given, loaned, or invested in their companies.

I'd hazard a guess that the news coverage of this played a role in getting the bailout delayed, if not killed. And, I do believe the public has a right to know and to make their own judgements.

 

[brokeflyer]

if they get saved......what are they gonna do to change their company?

without some sort of change, then the money will just be wasted. The company will be right back where it started because of piss poor management.