Ford & GM execs beg for money

[gret]

What would have been the reaction if
at least one of these guys had driven one of their cars to the hearings? They would have been heros!

What were they thinking?

They are idiots!

 

[fob727]

That's my point, a corporate jet is a tool, just the same as a computer, a factory, etc. All of the automakers have a corporate fleet, but this has absolutely nothing to do with the real question, "Should the government bail out the auto industry?"

Reporting like this gives the News industry a bad name.

With 6 million jobs at stake, I would say yes.

 

[o2bflyn]

I think people in this section will understand

How do you think the financial CEOs got to Washington.....that's right they didn't go, they had all already resigned and got million dollar payouts.

If anyone in the world thinks that (let's go supper high ball here) $100,000 is going to save even one of the Big 3 you are crazy.

Leave the fact they used corporate aircraft alone. If you want to critize them, talk about how they ran each of their respective companies into the ground.

 

[o2bflyn]

What would have been the reaction if
at least one of these guys had driven one of their cars to the hearings? They would have been heros!

What were they thinking?

They are idiots!

They would not have been heros.....they would have been late.

Do you honeslty think that would have made a difference?

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Here's my beef...

I fly one of them there fancy Gulfstreams but I have to say that once the government starts spending my tax money to bail out corporate America, all bets are off and they can park one or two of the Gulfstreams. They can have the flight department, but if it can be proven the fractional or charter model will save the company $ and still provide the transportation needs... bye bye flight department.

It drives me nuts when I see a G plane skipping up the east coast on a 1.5 hour flight with 2 paxs in it. That's what God made King Airs for. And if you really love airplanes and you're a tree hugger, that is what God made the TBM or Pilatus for.

Wolf

 

[xrated]

If anyone in the world thinks that (let's go supper high ball here) $100,000 is going to save even one of the Big 3 you are crazy.

Leave the fact they used corporate aircraft alone. If you want to critize them, talk about how they ran each of their respective companies into the ground.

You can relax, we know stopping travel on corporate jets won't save the Big three. Again, It's not the dollar amount, It's the priciple. When you are coming to (to coin a phrase from Palin) Joe the taxpayer who earns $35k a year, you just may want to show a little more cooth.

Lets say a very good friend of yours get laid off. He's in a jam and comes to you for a $2000 dollar loan so he can pay the mortgage. You're good for it and you're willing to help out. He comes over to collect and he's driving a brand new Corvette that has a $600 a month payment. Will getting rid of the ride save the house? No! But it looks bad. I may be out of line, but I for one would be a little put off.

Now I realize this is the Fractional board and people here fly private jets for a living and maybe we're all a little sensitive about it.

I have very little faith or trust in the CEO at my company. While there is no question he could afford to fly on private jets, he shows confidence in the product and flys coach. Maybe the Hot Shots at the Big three should do the same and drive next time. LOL

 

[B52GUNNER]

Well I did not want to start a a pi$$ing contest. I just wanted to show a couple things..

1. The media will never understand aviation. They only report what they think will make the biggest impact for a story.

2. The average taxpayer does not know about corporate aviation or airlines. All they know is they buy a ticket and sit in cramped coach.

3. With the way things are going right now with people loosing jobs (me included) the perspective of all these high paid execs running a company into the ground and then begging for money is too much for a lot of people.

I'll get recalled or find another job. Some people don't have that going for them and just want to lash out at something

 

[Publishers]

What most do not mention is that these guys have this in the employment contracts. One even has his wife can use it.

 

[transpac]

Regardless of any other factor, flying to a bailout hearing in a Gulfstream was incredibily stupid. If these CEOs aren't any smarter than this they need to be replaced before a dime of taxpayer money is given, loaned, or invested in their companies.

I'd hazard a guess that the news coverage of this played a role in getting the bailout delayed, if not killed. And, I do believe the public has a right to know and to make their own judgements.

 

[brokeflyer]

if they get saved......what are they gonna do to change their company?

without some sort of change, then the money will just be wasted. The company will be right back where it started because of piss poor management.

 

[o2bflyn]

if they get saved......what are they gonna do to change their company?

without some sort of change, then the money will just be wasted. The company will be right back where it started because of piss poor management.

That is what all this boils down to. It does not matter how they get to the meeting. It does not really matter if they get the bailout. What matters is how they are going to change the way they do business in order to make the companies compete.

 

[o2bflyn]

Lets say a very good friend of yours get laid off. He's in a jam and comes to you for a $2000 dollar loan so he can pay the mortgage. You're good for it and you're willing to help out. He comes over to collect and he's driving a brand new Corvette that has a $600 a month payment. Will getting rid of the ride save the house? No! But it looks bad. I may be out of line, but I for one would be a little put off.

I understand your point, although I am not sure your exapmle really applies. If you want to put your example in to proper relation. If you gave a friend a $2000 loan and he went out an bought a tank of gas would be more of an equivalent arguement. My answer to that would be, I don't really care. I am giving the loan so he can function while he recovers.

I will definetly agree that these CEOs (automtive, financial, etc...) that are seeking a bailout and then paying million dollar bonuses is way out of line. That would be more like giving a $2000 loan and having them buy a corvette instead of paying the mortgage.

In that context I would completely agree with your arguement. I just don't agree that that is the case here.

 

[gunfyter]

They were too stupid to realize how dumb the press and the public is. The cost of the business jet pales in comparison to the Savings to the corporation this business tool provides.

Shall We go back to using typewriters and post it notes instead of laptops and blackberrys on corporates mail servers?

Yeah they were bad on Perception ... but they are doing the right thing using those jets.

Now we can excuse the stupid press and ill informed public ... but the lectures from Congress ... people who should know better -- now that is scary.

BTW, No Bailout for Detroit ... but not because they have corporate jets.

Regardless of any other factor, flying to a bailout hearing in a Gulfstream was incredibily stupid. If these CEOs aren't any smarter than this they need to be replaced before a dime of taxpayer money is given, loaned, or invested in their companies.

I'd hazard a guess that the news coverage of this played a role in getting the bailout delayed, if not killed. And, I do believe the public has a right to know and to make their own judgements.

 

[RNObased]

Regardless of any other factor, flying to a bailout hearing in a Gulfstream was incredibily stupid. If these CEOs aren't any smarter than this they need to be replaced before a dime of taxpayer money is given, loaned, or invested in their companies.

I'd hazard a guess that the news coverage of this played a role in getting the bailout delayed, if not killed. And, I do believe the public has a right to know and to make their own judgements.

How do you think the CEO and execs of the banks and Wall Street got to washington??

The only reason it probably wasn't reported on then, is that there was an campaign going on and they had other things to do. Now campaign over, let's find something to report on, ahh biz jet travel. Got to love the media.

 

[realityman]

This thread is funny!! $20K for private jet travel?

Guess we sort of OVERLOOKED the billions of dollars AIG is getting in aid, all while still insisting they need to pay out over $500 MILLION in executive bonuses!!

JP Morgan is also getting billions in taxpayer help, and still insisting they need to pay out over $600 MILLION in executive bonuses!!!

Yes, I think the media needs to focus on private jet travel that the Big 3 use. Yeesh! No wonder these companies get away with this stuff. We're so easily distracted by the little things.

 

[jonjuan]

I suppose the media is getting to them as GM just announced getting rid of 2 of their planes.

 

[bluefin]

Reminds me of a time when the chief pilot and I went to a local waffle house for breakfast. When we were paying, the cashier noticed the logo on our jackets and said," I work my but off in here so I can pay my bills and one of them is to that company and they own private jets, that's b.s........" the chief pilot camly replied," waffle house has bigger jets than ours", you should have seen the look on her face. "Waffle house has private jets ???????" Point is, it's b.s. when it involves other people, not you.

 

[RNObased]

I suppose the media is getting to them as GM just announced getting rid of 2 of their planes.

Rode in the van at HPN with a couple of their flight crews last month, this move was already on the books. They just held it back until it gave them a little leverage.

 

[Sparse]

I wonder if anyone would have noticed if they had just flown into Manasass and taken a car service from there. Not a good time to be a GM, Ford, or Chrysler pilot. This is all about show boating. Politicians are the best at that.

What would have been really funny is if the CEOs has flown comercially and their flight had been delayed. They would have been late for the hearings. What would the hot air factory workers said then?

 

[transpac]

As much as this group wants to believe that executives simply cannot fly on small jets or props (or horrors, the airlines), the public isn't buying it. And, the public is right! Company executives know better than pilots which assets are essential, and the first major asset to go when a company falls on hard times is their airplane(s). I've been around this business longer than most and have setup flight departments and watched flight departments disappear. The truth is most corporate jets are primarily expensive perks for top management. Some companies need airplanes, and there's probably even a few who can efficiently use a Gulfstream. But, using a GV for a short domestic flight is just plain wasteful. And, it shows the very people you're hitting up for a handout that you're not willing to accept even the slightest personal sacrifice. They should have used a small turboprop even if it had to be chartered. Maybe Congress wouldn't have loaned them the 25B anyway. But, the CEOs involved sure handed them a ready made excuse.