For you more experienced IFR Pilots

[desertdog71]

I was wondering about Vestibular Disorientation, Vertigo, whatever you want to call it.

I am doing Hood training right now, for my Instrument Rating. Today my CFI and I took the opportunity to fly some Actual IMC. While in IMC, I started feeling a Yawing(spinning) sensation. This was contrary to the instrument readings. My CFI said this is normal and will lessen or go away with experience.
I never lost control or turned over control to my CFI, but I did have a hard time concentrating on what I was doing. Have any of you experienced guys dealt with this? I just need some more reassurance that its normal I guess.

Thanks

 

[Geronimo4497]

Don't worry about it too much. I had that a couple of times when I first started instrument training back in the dark ages. It will go away. Just trust the instruments and try to keep you scan going.

 

[flyingnome]

The feelings you are describing have to do with your vestibular canals or your motion sensing system. It is perfectly normal and it is partly why you practice unusual attitudes under the hood...to teach yourself to trust the instruments and not what your body is feeling. I suggest reading Aim chapter 8 if you havent already. Medical Facts for pilots, it will explain many of the "illusions in flight" in that section and should help to clear up some of what you are feeling.

 

[desertdog71]

The feelings you are describing have to do with your vestibular canals or your motion sensing system. It is perfectly normal and it is partly why you practice unusual attitudes under the hood...to teach yourself to trust the instruments and not what your body is feeling. I suggest reading Aim chapter 8 if you havent already. Medical Facts for pilots, it will explain many of the "illusions in flight" in that section and should help to clear up some of what you are feeling.

I fully understand what and why I am feeling it. I just wanted to know if it was "Normal"

I honestly did not expect to have these sensations. I have never had any balance issues, motion sickness or otherwise. I was Naive I guess. It was a good experience for me, and I learned from it.

I thought these things were isolated, but I have found in discussions so far that its quite common.

Thanks again for your input, it is appreciated.

 

[flyingnome]

no problem, I figued you understood when you mentioned the vestibular canals, but its always good to take a peek and read the symptoms after you have expirienced it for the first time. I find it to be rather interesting and yes it is quite common, the important thing is to recognize it, and trust your instruments so that you dont end up in the accident page of Flying Magazine.

 

[desertdog71]

no problem, I figued you understood when you mentioned the vestibular canals, but its always good to take a peek and read the symptoms after you have expirienced it for the first time. I find it to be rather interesting and yes it is quite common, the important thing is to recognize it, and trust your instruments so that you dont end up in the accident page of Flying Magazine.

I agree, it was a bit difficult to concentrate at first, but I pulled it together without CFI assistance. He also said it was common, but it helps to hear it from others as well. It definately showed me the importance of the Unusual Attitude recoveries that my CFI takes a sick pleasure in.

 

[Ralgha]

I felt the effects of disorientation coming on one dark night after taking off alone in a light twin commanche into a low overcast on a turning departure procedure. That wasn't a good feeling.

 

[desertdog71]

I felt the effects of disorientation coming on one dark night after taking off alone in a light twin commanche into a low overcast on a turning departure procedure. That wasn't a good feeling.

Nice!!

 

[acaTerry]

When I was new to IFR (real IFR...not hood, fog, etc. But REAL, turbulence, etc) it took some concentration. As you do more it will diminish. Especially from the hood. The hood hides all but the instruments. When you go real and see the cockpit, the nose, etc it is disorienting because you have more conflicting things to see. Hang in there you"ll get it soon.

 

[Doozer]

I've never been in the goo and not had some degree of vertigo. I even get vertigo in motion-based simulators.

Fortunately, my training was good, and I have little trouble flying by the gauges -- and the vertigo doesn't make me queasy like aerobatics do -- however, I do a lot of crosschecking to make sure I'm not following a renegade attitude gyro somewhere I don't want to be.

 

[JimNtexas]

As others have said, some vertigo is normal, it can to happen to anyone at anytime. It is great that your instructor let you fly in actual, not all of them will take students into IMC, and in fact not all of them have ever flown in actual themselves.

 

[desertdog71]

My CFI is Great, and I am fortunate to have him. I know for a fact I have experienced many things that most student pilots don't get to experience. He even told me to put the foggles on pre-take off and we did a simulated zero/zero takeoff.
I feel like these things give me an edge if and when I ever come across a real situation. He is the only CFI, that I know that does Power off 180's in the preparing private pilots.

Hey, thanks guys for the feedback, I really appreciate it. The overwhelminh majority of people have told me its normal. I was afraid that I was in the minority, but I fell better knowing that its common.

Thanks

 

[minitour]

The first time I got it bad was on my CFII training flight.

We were in actual, on vectors for ILS35R at KOKC....I'll neeever forget it.

We had been turned base and I was going through my checklist, teaching the instructor and explaining why. With all of the head movements, when I rolled out to our assigned heading, I got a wicked case of the leans.

It dawned on me and I said "wow....that's weird...never had the leans before".

It happens, just trust those instruments...I probably increased my scan rate a little bit trying to double check them, but realizing that "hey...they're right...pay attention" made it go away pretty quickly.

The last time I got it was just a little bit ago. Visibility was poor, probably 5 miles...we were VFR (stu and me) going into CLE from the west. As usual, got vectored out over the lake...into that "black hole" of overcast, moonless sky and dark lake erie waters...I had lots of head movements looking back to the city lights, which was the mistake....very gradually it looked like the lights were moving...I thought we were turning....cross-check...nope...straight and level....okay....not IMC, bad disorientation feeling...

Once you look at those instruments, know what they're telling you and stick to it, there are no problems...just takes some getting used to and practice.

Good luck and it sounds like you've got a good CFI...extra training (pwr off 180s for PPL, sim 0/0 t/o, etc.) is never EVER a bad thing. That's something I try to keep in mind and always teach the students more than what's required.

Keep the greasy side down!

-mini

 

[User546]

It's perfectly normal, and don't worry about it! Also, don't feel bad about it if it doesn't go away over time either. It doesn't make you any better or worse of an Instrument pilot, just ingrain it in your head "ALWAYS trust your instruments!"

I still get the "leans" on occasion. It'll happen about once a year and it'll come right out of no where when you least expect it. For me it seems every time it happens I'm making some kind of turn while hand-flying in IMC.

Just a couple months ago I was hand-flying a VOR Approach, and when I made a right turn, my body started screaming at me that we were in a steep turn bank, and descending rapidly. Quick glance at the instruments, and I was at 20 degrees bank, and mostly level. When I leveled the wings and started inbound, I remember feeling like I was in a small 5 deg or so bank, even though the AI was showing straight. I had to conciously tell myself to quit trying to make the small corrections to fix it. Just have to concentrate extra hard on the instruments, and verify they're giving you the accurate information.

My leans typically last for about 30 seconds to a minute then they'll disappear for another few months.

 

[Tonala2k]

I still get it. I first thought it was cool. I've just learned not to move my head so much. Looking left and right will create that yawing feeling. It's always worse in a new plane when I find myself scanning the entire cockpit 2-5 times for one thing. Why can't Beech make their planes more like Cessna?