For all you "if you don't like it quit" guys

[100LL... Again!]

It must not be too bad, or they would all quit.

Sooner or later market forces will stabilize the pay rate at an amount that ensures enough pilots. Supply and demand always works, just not how we want it to.

 

[FN FAL]

It must not be too bad, or they would all quit.

Sooner or later market forces will stabilize the pay rate at an amount that ensures enough pilots. Supply and demand always works, just not how we want it to.

Just look at this month's "Flying" magazine. Looking at the ads, there is going to be a whole new heard of lemmings looking to join the circus with the promise of Vietnam veteran retirements and one year jet captain upgrades with the forecasted expansion at the regionals.

 

[TIS]

How about this then!

If you like it, stick around!

Is that any better?

Rangers, I think you fail to grasp the essential point of those who espouse the if-you-don't-like-it-quit mantra. It's not about getting rid of the weaklings and it's not about the wages. It's about sticking out, through thick and thin, whatever your career brings you.

Having been through quite a of the few ups and downs that this business imposes on us I can honestly say that I find it tiresome and even boring to hear the incessant whining of those who think they're owed more than they are by this job. To these folks I unabashedly suggest that perhaps another career would suit them better. Their unhappiness is very much of concern to me - I don't want it clouding their thinking when good clear thinking is what I need from them.

I have never worked a job in aviation where there wasn't something to complain about on a daily basis. It doesn't matter whether you're working as a CFI, an airline pilot or as a corporate pilot - the BS is the same throughout the industry. What's different between aviation and the rest of the working world is that the BS usually stops when the door shuts and in a business world full of cubicles that's saying a lot!

Pilot attitudes do not have anything to do with wages but the ability of the company to generate a profit consistently does. The productivity of any particular company stems directly from the way they conduct their business. Some models work while others are too big, clunky, and just flat outmoded in the modern business climate that airlines find themselves in today. This fact is staring United, USAirways, Delta, and American straight in the face these days while other leaner and meaner business are lauging all the way to the bank.

Your article is way off point and basically inapplicable to the assertion you make. Your attempt to divine the future of aviation in America fails because you attempt to equate situations that are not comparable. The state of affairs in the former Soviet Union and, for that matter, anywhere in Europe has NOTHING to do with what's going on here.

The simple fact is that with nothing to sell and no skills to market things are what they are because they cannot be any better. Truth be told, the former Soviet states are basically third-world nations that have a long way to go to achieve a higher status. It could be argued that they really have no business having airlines in the first place - not with the economies they sport.

So, if you like what you do stick around, but don't be too surprised if this job serves up a few stinker years for you along the way! It's the nature of the beast. But if you find yourself thinking that someone's just got to fix the declining wage problems or the decline of union power you should think about another line of work. The wages will only go up when the abilty of the business to make a profit is consistent and repeatable, and the unions will only gain their power back when they are on a level playing field with the companies they bargain with. In most cases in the U.S. aviation business neither of these is about to happen anytime soon.

Again, if you like what you do, stick with it! This job has many more good days than bad - on balance.

TIS

 

[pilotyip]

What a great post!

You hit it right on the head in "succinct" terms. You can not make the job into something you would like it to be, you have to accept or reject the job as it exists.

 

[mar]

Well said.

It's not about getting rid of the weaklings and it's not about the wages. It's about sticking out, through thick and thin, whatever your career brings you.

As Michael Chowdrey used to say: This is the life you have chosen.

To survive you must adapt.

 

[hbrow15]

Passengers have the money, they just don't want to spend it. Its up to the employees to demand it from the passengers.

The only one's you can demand a larger fare from is the business traveler that just has to pay the fare as a cost of doing business. Everyone else that may prove more difficult when you are selling a service. You can jack up the prices on gas for your car and utilities for your home because you basically have no choice because you have to have those things. But unless you have to get somewhere quickly you dont have to fly and for some until the prices came down getting on an airplane was simply a luxury beyond thier means. The LCC's have provided those passengers with that "service", and becuase of the LCC's flying the family on vacation is now possible. Most passengers just want to get from A to B to them a 737 is a 737, so they dont care if it's Southwest or U.S. Air's 737 just who's is cheaper. I think what TIS is saying is that the market and everything that goes along with it including ticket prices and employee compensation is in the end determined by the consumer. You can only charge what the passenger will pay. Just like the sucky resturaunt on the corner if the customers think it stinks the doors will close. Which is why an airline career is what it is now, the customers dont think the LCC's stink.

 

[asacap]

Whining is just part of the airline pilot profession. If you don't like it, quit!

 

[Mooseflyer]

The only one's you can demand a larger fare from is the business traveler that just has to pay the fare as a cost of doing business.

I disagree with you to some degree. I'd say the only ones you can demand a HUGE fare from are the business travellers (in some cases). ALL others I'd bet would be willing to pay at least a LITTLE more for their selected flight.

The last 3 times I flew were because of weddings and funerals. You can't change where or when someone gets married or dies, so you're stuck with whatever fares present themselves at the time. Happily for me, with fares being so absurdly cheap, it wasn't much of a hit to the pocket book. If I paid $100 for one of these tickets, would I be willing to pay $110? Sure no problem. How about $150? $200? I don't think that's too much to ask. Now, if I'm facing fares of $2000 each for my wife and I, then I may have to tell my relatives to pay respects to Aunt Cathy FOR me, but for less than the cost of dinner at a nice restaurant, I'll certainly go do it myself. To me, this is a "cost of doing business" as well - the business of family and friends.

Like someone said in another thread - people will scour the internet for hours to save $10 on a ticket, but think nothing of spending the same amount on a beer at the terminal.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The company pays your paycheck. Unions fill in the amount.

 

[46Driver]

Russia is becoming very western.

Uhhhh, no. Russia is Russia. Always has been, always will be.