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For all you "buy American" Boeing anti Airbus people

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8vATE

Cruel, Nice, Whatever
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Posts
538
I like Boeings...
But you guys who chant that buy American crap are clueless...



Airbus parent to build piece of Boeing's new plane
Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:22 PM ET

By Christian Plumb

NEW YORK, Oct 18 (Reuters) - European planemaker Airbus' parent company EADS (EAD.PA: Quote, Profile, Research) will make a key piece of U.S. archrival Boeing Co.'s (BA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) latest passenger jet, in a sign of how outsourcing can trump national pride.
Boeing supplier Vought Aircraft Industries Inc.'s announcement on Monday that EADS will be a subcontractor on its work on the 787 Dreamliner was at first glance a surprise considering that Boeing and Airbus -- two symbols of regional industrial might -- are facing off in a trade battle.
But analysts said the news, first reported by the Seattle Times, was an inevitable consequence of an engineering-intensive industry where a handful of companies have the know-how to build the necessary specialized parts.
"Subcontracting makes for strange bedfellows," said Richard Aboulafia, an analyst with the Teal Group, adding that the move was a symptom of "greater internationalization" of manufacturing that is an inevitable consequence of globalized airliner sales.
The 787, a jetliner built largely of composite materials, is one of the most outsourced planes in history, including 30 percent to be built by Japanese manufacturers.
Dallas-based Vought, which will build much of the plane's rear fuselage, said it had reached price agreements with companies including EADS, which will make a rear wall known as the aft pressure bulkhead.
Vought said Boeing had not limited which companies it could hire as subcontractors.
"Apparently this is a small global supply base," said Vought spokeswoman Lynne Warne. "In most cases it's a unique capability, so it's not like you can competitively bid a lot of these processes when there are only a handful of people who can do portions of this work."
Neither Boeing, nor EADS immediately returned phone calls seeking comment.
EADS-Casa, EADS' Spanish unit, already makes the rudder for Boeing's 737 as well as the flaps and ailerons on its 777, Aboulafia said. Britain's BAE Systems Plc (BAE.L: Quote, Profile, Research) which owns 20 percent of Airbus to EADS' 80 percent, also makes parts of the 777.
Airbus itself plans to outsource up to 70 percent of its aircraft production abroad, Chief Executive Gustav Humbert was quoted as saying in German newspapers on Monday.
Still, Aboulafia said Airbus has often been aggressive in acquiring companies in its supply chain, moving in the opposite direction of Boeing, which earlier this year sold off a key part of its jetmaking operations in the latest such move.
Boeing and Airbus are locked in a trade dispute over what Boeing calls unfair subsidies from European governments to Airbus planes like the A350, a rival for the 787. Airbus has said Boeing also receives subsidies in the form of defense contracts from the U.S. government, assistance from the state of Washington and Japanese government help for Boeing partners Fuji Heavy Industries
 
So now we know who's fault it is when a Boeing crashes.

J/K!!! Put your "flaming fingers" away.
 
I believe in buying American which is why I got rid of my Chevrolet built in Mexico and replaced it with a Toyota built in Ohio.
 
For anyone who tries to use outsourcing as an excuse, two real simple questions are all you need to ask;
Where do the profits go?
Where do the taxes go?
If your answer is anything other then the US, well too bad you just lost the argument.
 
G4G5 said:
For anyone who tries to use outsourcing as an excuse, two real simple questions are all you need to ask;
Where do the profits go?
Where do the taxes go?
If your answer is anything other then the US, well too bad you just lost the argument.

Where do the profits go from EADS subcontract revenue? US?
Where do the taxes go from EADS subcontract profit? US?

NOPE.

I don't understand your argument. It could also be work given to Americans which is income tax loss and fewer jobs.
 
i'd rather buy something made by company that pays their workers a fair wage. don't know what fair is but i know that the average american CEO makes hundreds of times more than his american worker. in japan, western europe, and the rest of the 'west' the CEO is not even close to american CEO. so where does the profit go? Upper, upper management and shareholders.

where do the taxes go? i don't think i need to go into how the govt wastes tax money.
 
Clueless??? Very harsh. And not accurate. Just opinionated.

Yeah, I know about the outsourcing thing to Japan. Have known it for awhile. I don't like it but its still better than buying a Frenchy Airbus (I know it is a consortium and not just French).

Boeing may going too far, but they may also bring more back home in the future. Airbus is outsourcing to this hemisphere but is also buying its suppliers. I have relatives that work in American factories bought by Swedes or Germans. Not what I wish on any American but it is better than all European parts.

But I also don't wish shortsighted American management on any American either.

I still say buy American if you can. Notice I didn't say I hate Airbus. I just choose American first.
 
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Clueless maybe is a little harsh..

But guys like G4G5 who rant and rave with no rational argument other than bashing others bring the harshness out in me.:smash:


This is a global economy with complicated relationships between manufacturers and mega corporations.

Boeing builds a great product. But their arrogance and business culture created a vacuum where Airbus could succeed.

Did Airbus play fair? Absolutely not.
But the Airbus of 25 years ago is not the Airbus of today.

Either way..
It didn't stop G4 from jumping in his Dassault and Falcon!
Hypocrite!
 
8vATE]Clueless maybe is a little harsh..

But guys like G4G5 who rant and rave with no rational argument other than bashing others bring the harshness out in me.:smash:

The FORTUNE magazine top 10 US companies has names like GM, Ford, GE & IBM. How many jobs do you think these companies provide to the US economy? Do you think for a minute that every single part that they use in everyone of their products comes form the US? With your logic it would be perfectly exceptable to stop buying every US companies products. What part of this don't you get. It may cost Nike $.99 cents to make a pair of sneakers in China, they charge $100.00. That's $99 of corporate profit directly sent to a US corporation. Taxes are paid, to the US government. Jobs are created in countless US shoe stores. I don't care if Boeing decides to make 50-75% of their 787 abroad the profits stay in US, controlled by a US company and taxes are paid to the US government and yes, you may find this hard to believe but Boeing still creates jobs in the US. What percentage of an A350 will be made in the US?

This is a global economy with complicated relationships between manufacturers and mega corporations.

Boeing builds a great product. But their arrogance and business culture created a vacuum where Airbus could succeed.

Do you know what's going on outside your little world, in the real world that is. This summer the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT (not Boeing) has gone to the WTO to file a lawsuit against the EU for their ILLEGAL Airbus subsidizes
From the Internation Herald Tribune:
"Those questions have been fueled by a lawsuit the United States has filed against the European Union at the World Trade Organization, alleging that Europe has damaged Boeing by illegally financing the development of new planes like the A350 with low-cost government loans"

It's pretty clear that the US government disagrees with your opinion that "arrogance and business culture" created the problem. How do you pass off years of illegal subsidizes in order to create jobs for Europeans as something Boeing did to themselves?

Did Airbus play fair? Absolutely not.
But the Airbus of 25 years ago is not the Airbus of today.

25 years of illegal subsisizes.

Either way..
It didn't stop G4 from jumping in his Dassault and Falcon!
Hypocrite!

What 3 engine US manufactured corporate jet competes directly with the Falcon 50. Answer, their isn't one. So what would your suggestion be? It's not like the A320 which has a compariable US made product, the 737.

Want to eat some crow wise as? The Falcons I flew were purchased by a Fortune 10, US company in a effort to secure European contracts from Dassault and the French government for their products. It worked and countless jobs in the US were created. This is actually quite common Honeywell operates both Gulfstreams and Falcons. GE opertates both Bombardiers and Boeings

Whats' your companies excuse?

It's a well know fact the Neelman would have prefered to operate the 737, like he did at Westair and Morris(go back to the last Boeing Vs Airbus thread, I site references and quotes, I am not doing it again). The only reason Jetblue operates Airbuses is because their subsidizes allowed them to undercut Boeing.
 
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