Flops

[SilverSurfer]

Don't forget one very important point

Don't forget one very important point.

When the contract is ready it has to be voted on. If a contract comes out and is not acceptable, as was the rejected NJ first attempt, or there is not resolution to the RIF pilots situation, simply vote no to the contract and keep voting no until its right. It puts and keep pressure on both our union negotiators and management to produce a good contract and bringing the RIF back.

We each have power in our vote.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Our union leadership will not put forth a TA for vote prior to this issue be resolved. So even if there are those who "would" vote for a contract that did not include return of the 70 who were RIF'd, truth is they'll never have the opportunity to do so. Management knows this, and for many reasons are motivated more than ever to get the contract issue settled. Yes, there will be a cost associated with their return, but then that was point of RIF'ing the 70 all along - to give management more leverage at the bargaining table.

I'll guarantee that these same FUD spinners (fracjack) are not going directly to our union leadership to express their thoughts on the matter.

 

[jetwash]

I don't expect to see a contract that does not include the 70+ as part of the agreement.

I know our negotiation team will never disgrace themselves by giving into that, so it is a mute point.

No RIF pilots = No contract

 

[glasspilot]

What's a "mute" point? One that can't be heard?

 

[993_Pilot]

What's a "mute" point? One that can't be heard?

I would guess that he meant "moot"

moot –adjective 1.open to discussion or debate; debatable; doubtful: a moot point. 2.of little or no practical value or meaning; purely academic. 3.Chiefly Law. not actual; theoretical; hypothetical. –verb (used with object) 4.to present or introduce (any point, subject, project, etc.) for discussion. 5.to reduce or remove the practical significance of; make purely theoretical or academic. 6.Archaic. to argue (a case), esp. in a mock court. –noun 7.an assembly of the people in early England exercising political, administrative, and judicial powers. 8.an argument or discussion, esp. of a hypothetical legal case. 9.Obsolete. a debate, argument, or discussion.

 

[jet2work]

Hey all,

I'm a former Flops pilot. I just thought that I would give you some of my perspective. I recognized about 4 years ago that I was on a sinking ship at Flops. Don't get me wrong. I loved the guys I flew with (not in the biblical sense) and the flying was fun (for the most part). I just ran the numbers and figured that 5 years as a Beechjet FO wasn't gonna help put my kids through college.

After I left for a corporate job, I tried hooking a few of my Flops buddies with positions at my company and at other local companies. Some of those guys were senior Flops guys and most of them eventually became involved with the unionization effort. Whenever I prodded them to just bail on FltOps, they would say that they had too much invested and wanted to make FltOps a better place. I just didn't get it. Here I was a year later making more than twice as much money as I was making at FltOps and offering to help them do the same. And their response was that they wanted to stick it out and make FltOps a better place for all of the pilots there instead of leaving and taking care of themselves.

Unfortunately, at least two of those guys were RIF'd. So I would suggest that any FltOps pilot please consider the sacrafices made by some, to get you to where you are now. I know that this will be harder for a junior guy (like I was) to swallow. Your best bet is probably to get the hell out of there or else bite the bullet.

Good luck to all of you.

I had the pleasure of flying with Mr. don't touch my bags, and our resident Thunderbird.. Good times...

 

[993_Pilot]

... I'm a former Flops pilot. ....Your best bet is probably to get the hell out of there or else bite the bullet.

Good luck to all of you...

And what about the senior guys making more? Or the guys that are not living in a large metro area, and don't really want to move? I have flown for charter companies and corporate flight departments. Sometimes they have crappy schedules, or are always on a pager. Sometimes the CEO changes and the new one doesn't see the need for a corporate jet. The CBA is not just about pay! Domiciles, and Working Conditions are very important too! We all have things that are important to each of us, but those are why I stick around, and fight the battle for a CBA.

 

[netjetwife]

993, how right you are! Your cause is entirely justified and I support the FltOps pilots 100%! Hang in there, guys! NJW

 

[fracjack]

I'll guarantee that these same FUD spinners (fracjack) are not going directly to our union leadership to express their thoughts on the matter.

Hey Mr. Pro, you can read the written word (apparantly not)can you also read minds?
Perhaps you also signed on for the severance as one of the 70 and are kickin yourself. Let me guess, you write up lightbulbs in Malta,Mt. after a couple flights past any maintenance facility.People that did similar things to make there "union" stand hurt us all and drove owners away,want to guess who was the biggest beneficiary?
I regret signing up for the drival that happens under the fractional threads, must be the same loudmouths as the union site.

 

[993_Pilot]

. . . I regret signing up for the drival that happens under the fractional threads, must be the same loudmouths as the union site.

I have a simple solution for you . . . Go away. Then you won't have to listen to any "loudmouths".

 

[dime line]

Hey Mr. Pro, you can read the written word (apparantly not)can you also read minds?
Perhaps you also signed on for the severance as one of the 70 and are kickin yourself. Let me guess, you write up lightbulbs in Malta,Mt. after a couple flights past any maintenance facility.People that did similar things to make there "union" stand hurt us all and drove owners away,want to guess who was the biggest beneficiary?
I regret signing up for the drival that happens under the fractional threads, must be the same loudmouths as the union site.

You must be the same FLOPS pilot talking trash on the road about the 70, they deserved to be fired. (Just had a NJ's pilot tell me this today)

 

[waka]

Hey Mr. Pro, you can read the written word (apparantly not)can you also read minds?
Perhaps you also signed on for the severance as one of the 70 and are kickin yourself. Let me guess, you write up lightbulbs in Malta,Mt. after a couple flights past any maintenance facility.People that did similar things to make there "union" stand hurt us all and drove owners away,want to guess who was the biggest beneficiary?
I regret signing up for the drival that happens under the fractional threads, must be the same loudmouths as the union site.

Which Marker brother are you? Either way, spineless ass kissers.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Ok Ed. stick you head back up you dumb A$$

Hey Mr. Pro, you can read the written word (apparantly not)can you also read minds?
Perhaps you also signed on for the severance as one of the 70 and are kickin yourself. Let me guess, you write up lightbulbs in Malta,Mt. after a couple flights past any maintenance facility.People that did similar things to make there "union" stand hurt us all and drove owners away,want to guess who was the biggest beneficiary?
I regret signing up for the drival that happens under the fractional threads, must be the same loudmouths as the union site.

Ok Ed. you stupid, a$$ kissing POS, stick your head back in your a$$ and do what you do best kiss managements a$$. Oh I forgot, you do one other thing better, fu(king up jet engines by sucking in engine covers, proforming MX functions and lying about it to cover up how bad you fu(ked up.

You would be better off never signing back on to this or any board that real pilots read. You are such a dumb a$$ that nothing you have to say is worth reading anyway.:laugh:

 

[Myster79]

You must be the same FLOPS pilot talking trash on the road about the 70, they deserved to be fired. (Just had a NJ's pilot tell me this today)

I would love to talk to that guy. I am sure a few of us could straighten him out on who deserves to get fired...

 

[dime line]

I want a list of the pilots that want to throw the 70 under the bus. Kinda like the scab list the airlines have (no these pilots are not scabs)

I do see one of our APSMs is now paying his dues (great), but there are a lot of BJ pilots that have been on the wrong end of this pilot. Are we suppose to just forget the natzism tactics these pilots dished out, over the last 3 years?

 

[Myster79]

I want a list of the pilots that want to throw the 70 under the bus. Kinda like the scab list the airlines have (no these pilots are not scabs)

I do see one of our APSMs is now paying his dues (great), but there are a lot of BJ pilots that have been on the wrong end of this pilot. Are we suppose to just forget the natzism tactics these pilots dished out, over the last 3 years?

I saw that also. I couldn't help but cringe when I saw his name. In my opinion, he was the worst one. Every time I had to talk to that douch-bag, I would hang up cursing the day I came to FLOPS. However, I am glad he is paying his dues, but I will never forget his actions in the past!!!!

 

[dime line]

Yea I just have a hard time believing he is changing his mind, on the support thing. Personally I think he is trying to save "Face", which makes me think he is a coward. He has been anti-union for the whole time, all of a sudden he has seen the light?

 

[Myster79]

This is what happens when they lose their cushy job at CGF. He is a kiss A**, he always has been a kiss a** and he always will be a kiss a**. Furthermore, he is in the beginning of his career, he has know idea how small of an industry this is. We will all remember his name. I hope one day he walks into my office for a job interview!!!

 

[cougar12]

I am at a loss! what list? PM me the list. Can you use initials so I can at least guess who you are talking about.

 

[993_Pilot]

This is for the Flt Opt guys.
Who would like a TA to vote on that would allow the company to pick and choose the innocents to come back from the 70 RIFs?
How about all of them only or none of them?
Who believes some of the 70 should never come back?
I've learned in the past to never say never.

What have you been smoking? There will be no TA until the 70 are back...

Let me be the first to say I told you so. (see my first response quoted above if you have forgotten) According the Kenn's weekly announcement today, the RIFed pilots are being offered their jobs back! 3 cheers for the 1108!!!

 

[netjetwife]

I certainly hope it all works out. Maybe they're finally grasping the concept that doing the right thing is also a smart thing. I'm eagerly awaiting more updates, details, etc. Good luck to all the Options folks, especially those most affected... NJW

 

[B19 Flyer]

I certainly hope it all works out. Maybe they're finally grasping the concept that doing the right thing is also a smart thing. I'm eagerly awaiting more updates, details, etc. Good luck to all the Options folks, especially those most affected... NJW

Your version of the "right" thing cost a lot of people their jobs.... Of course, it's all fair in your eyes.

Did you forget that there were not just 70 pilots that got fired? There were a lot of other innocents also?

I know... they were only collateral damage and by your opinion, that's OK simply because they could have, but didn't invest properly in their careers.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Let me be the first to say I told you so. (see my first response quoted above if you have forgotten) According the Kenn's weekly announcement today, the RIFed pilots are being offered their jobs back! 3 cheers for the 1108!!!

Ahh... wrong again...

I stated they were bargaining chips long ago, and while that isn't a clear statement that they would get their jobs back, it's a clear statement that it's part of the process.

So, in reality... once again I can enjoy the original "I told you so".

The only surprise with me is that they weren't more and that it happened before the TA. Usually it happens as part of the TA.

 

[993_Pilot]

Ahh... wrong again...

I wasn't talking to you B19, or are you admitting that you sock-puppet as FracJack? Are you Narrowbridge too? But, while I am addressing you, are you saying that there was a TA before the 70 were brought back ??? Tell me how I was wrong when I said there would be no TA until the 70 were back.

 

[B19 Flyer]

I wasn't talking to you B19, or are you admitting that you sock-puppet as FracJack? Are you Narrowbridge too? But, while I am addressing you, are you saying that there was a TA before the 70 were brought back ??? Tell me how I was wrong when I said there would be no TA until the 70 were back.

Let's let you read what I wrote again. Maybe you'll read all the words the second time.


The only surprise with me is that they weren't more and that it happened before the TA.

Usually it happens as part of the TA.

 

[993_Pilot]

Let's let you read what I wrote again. Maybe you'll read all the words the second time.


The only surprise with me is that they weren't more and that it happened before the TA.

Usually it happens as part of the TA.

I never said that I was the first to predict something, I simply said "Let me be the first to say "I told you so." to FracJack when I responded to the original post with, "There will be no TA until the 70 are back." So congratulations, you alluded to something that came true before I did.

I'll make another prediction here too... I predict that Bob Tyler will leave Flight Options to "pursue other opportunities" within a year, probably sooner. As a disclaimer, I might not be the first to make this prediction either. You probably already predict the same thing don't you B19 Flyer?

 

[cougar12]

Bob Tyler has to go! The pilots will never trust him or work with him especially after his email on the 23 hammering our union president and our negotiating team. Personally, I won't even acknowledge his existence in any dealings I have with the company. The man has lost all credibility and has no integrity.

 

[netjetwife]

Sounds like another boot campaign is needed...

 

[ProFracPilot]

Bob Tyler has to go! The pilots will never trust him or work with him especially after his email on the 23 hammering our union president and our negotiating team. Personally, I won't even acknowledge his existence in any dealings I have with the company. The man has lost all credibility and has no integrity.

I agree, Cougar. BT will tell you one-on-one that he didn't compose most of the e-mails we've seen from him in the last 2 years. Assuming for a nanosecond that he's telling the truth, how could he NOT be ashamed for letting them put his name on THAT e-mail. If he didn't have the cojones to stop the e-mail trashing Mat, then I believe he has lost any respect he may have had along with the authority to lead this pilot group.

His office has already been moved from the fishbowl to the pit. The next move is out the door.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Kenn Ricce's management by trust

Bob Tyler has to go! The pilots will never trust him or work with him especially after his email on the 23 hammering our union president and our negotiating team. Personally, I won't even acknowledge his existence in any dealings I have with the company. The man has lost all credibility and has no integrity.

If Ricce wants to build trust between his pilots and management then more the just BT has to go. We have a number of managers that have lied to and systematical attacked us at the direction of Sh!tfinger and ford & harisson. Both of the current PM and a number of the PSM need to be removed from management, like BT we could never trust them again.