FLops Village Idiots - in house

[Rupert.]

Are you saying an LOA couldn't have been written allowing displaced pilots to keep current pay, just as was done for the furlough returnees? Or that the company refused to do so? Are you telling us that IBT leadership fought to protect their members' pay in this case?

Or was it that the top 2 union officials, being small cabin capts, didn't think it was fair that they might get a right seater making more than them? Even though that person had been displaced through no fault of his/her own? Isn't that what Capt Praetorian said on a group call?

Spot on! Slinghoffa is only worried about himself. An LOA certainly could have been drafted.

 

[cougar12]

Wow! You guys don't know s*%t. Cannot believe that someone would bad mouth Shawn. Totally classless. That dude is aces!! Have a whole new disrespect for this website. Unreal.

Who is bad mouthing who? I was not bad mouthing anyone! It came straight from Phil's mouth when I asked who all is involved in this foray. If it is not true someone should tell Phil that Shawn is not supporting the In-house Union.

 

[cougar12]

Are you saying an LOA couldn't have been written allowing displaced pilots to keep current pay, just as was done for the furlough returnees? Or that the company refused to do so? Are you telling us that IBT leadership fought to protect their members' pay in this case?

Or was it that the top 2 union officials, being small cabin capts, didn't think it was fair that they might get a right seater making more than them? Even though that person had been displaced through no fault of his/her own? Isn't that what Capt Praetorian said on a group call?

I didn't say an in-house effort is the way to go. I said this was a selfish and short-sighted decision by the IBT leaders. Much like senior management's antics during the Schreenga days had the effect of promoting a union, I think this episode pi$$ed off enough displaced capts to make a decert vote much more likely. People tend to get offended when you take food off their family's table.

BlueNose,
I think much of what you say is an over simplification of how the whole process played out.
Yes, the company offered to protect the pay of the original Hawker surplus pilots.
Yes, the Union agreed to that as long as ANY PILOT senior to the most junior surplus pilot was elevated to that pay.(Much like what Net Jet's had done previously).

The company would not agree to that. That was not a precedent the company was willing to set. We can see why now, the company would be incurring higher operating costs in the small cabin fleet with Some PIC's and SIC's making Citation X captain pay or Hawker captain pay. So much for wanting the highest paid pilots in the industry.

In the end, all the company was willing to give it's family members was bumping rights.

As far as what was said on a phone call. I am sure MS wishes he didn't loose his composure when someone was unwilling to try and understand what he was saying and would like to rephrase his response.

 

[hogbody]

Are you saying an LOA couldn't have been written allowing displaced pilots to keep current pay, just as was done for the furlough returnees? Or that the company refused to do so? Are you telling us that IBT leadership fought to protect their members' pay in this case?

The Union presented three solutions to the Company, all of which would have preserved some or all the pay these guys stood to lose. The Company could have LOA'd any of the 3, but chose not to. They claimed it was too expensive, but really it was just another devious way to make the Union look bad.

 

[GooseHZ]

Management wanted nothing binding on paper. Blind hatred and lack of understanding is not helping you get your point across effectively. Maybe Ed can give you some better talking points.

 

[Rupert.]

The Union presented three solutions to the Company, all of which would have preserved some or all the pay these guys stood to lose. The Company could have LOA'd any of the 3, but chose not to. They claimed it was too expensive, but really it was just another devious way to make the Union look bad.

Yes or No. Were the three options the union offered more expensive than just freezing the displaced pilots pay? Answer, YES. The unions loa options involved too much money. Just face it, the 1108 screwed us.

 

[chainring]

Yeah too expensive. Ricci needed to save money cause we've been profitable for years so he could go buy another company and screw everyone. Wake up dude the Teamsters isn't the bad guy here. Ricci is a f#%king scumbag and a liar.

 

[GooseHZ]

Phi....sorry I mean Rupert is incapable of haveing a logical discussion. He has been promised the World.

 

[hogbody]

Or was it that the top 2 union officials, being small cabin capts, didn't think it was fair that they might get a right seater making more than them? Even though that person had been displaced through no fault of his/her own?

I

I recall that was an execu board decision. 4 mid and super-mid cabin guys, 3 small cabin guys. I think you are grasping at straws. If you want to go back to the old days when everyone got paid whatever the boss pulled out of his hat, then by all means support the in-house joke. Whoever wears the most brown lipstick will be paid the most.

 

[FracMonster]

Slinghoffa and his stooges.. wow.. Talk about minions.

 

[jetwash]

What is this I am hearing that the in house union wants to keep the IBT 1108 contract as their own?
I thought they didn't want anything to do with the IBT?

It looks like they just want to be in control. If so why not run for President of the 1108?

If you don't want to be associated with the Teamsters why would you want their contract?
Negotiate one with management and then present it to the pilots so we can see what you have to offer. It shouldn't be a problem since you are going to have office space just a few steps away. One very important question that was not answered is will you receive the key to the executive washroom?

 

[Hoyt]

Who is bad mouthing who? I was not bad mouthing anyone! It came straight from Phil's mouth when I asked who all is involved in this foray. If it is not true someone should tell Phil that Shawn is not supporting the In-house Union.

Are you Phil??? From the way you are posting this is "from Phil's mouth". YOU posted Shawn's name. Either way it is classless and you don't know s*%t about Shawn. Jesus! You don't see this and yet you fly airplanes? Unreal!

 

[jetwash]

Are you Phil??? From the way you are posting this is "from Phil's mouth". YOU posted Shawn's name. Either way it is classless and you don't know s*%t about Shawn. Jesus! You don't see this and yet you fly airplanes? Unreal!

Maybe S.M. Should have a talk with Phil and ask him to stop telling everyone that he is on the in house organizing committee.
Phil has been using him as a counter to the negative reaction of pilots when they hear that Special Ed is also one of the leaders.

Phil and S.M. Should send out a joint letter to the pilot group and let us know what the real story is? Until then we can only go by what Phil has been saying.

 

[GooseHZ]

The Special Ed Club is trying to keep their leadership under wraps...I was told there where 3 then 6. I would like to have a logical debate about an in house.

 

[shanes123]

It's not the special Ed club ..chuck Brace started it all and is the ring leader he has a few faithful followers Ed being one of them...they have there little secret phone conferences and the union has known about them all along for the last few years.. But has never done anything about them because they were never a threat. Just a bunch of losers blowing hot air. Now that ricci has thrown his blows to the union there cause has picked up a little steam and the union must be worried cause they have addressed them finally..they have Riccis and mgt backing..not good for the future of 1108

 

[GooseHZ]

If they have and backing/ contact from the company that's illegal. I think it's a good thing for the1108. Competition no matter how feeble is always good.

 

[shanes123]

Sorry backing wrong term maybe..how bout blessing

 

[GooseHZ]

Ok......so are they are ready negotiating a CBA with management?

 

[slowtation capt]

Ok......so are they are ready negotiating a CBA with management?

Nope, they want to overthrow the IBT and run with the contract that we all ready have.

So you have to ask yourself, if they want to stay with the contract that we have, what would they have done when the company wanted to keep the pay of the pilots there were getting displaced, essentially violating the contract. I know what they would have done, they would have let the company do it, and not said a word to them. So they next time the company wants to do something against the contract, they are free to do it, because they know that this little in-house club (can't even call it a union) will do NOTHING to protect the contract.

 

[chainring]

I'm not sure about this so maybe someone can answer but I don't think they can just take our contract and put their name on it. That contract is owned by the Teamsters. Also I think their would have to be 2 separate votes. One to try and decertify and then another to vote in another union.