Flops TA

[FR8DOG777]

FR8DOG777-

If you don't like the company, the "rich pricks", or the TA, there's a door waiting for you. But I'll be d***** before I stand quietly by while you suggest we start "closing the whole gd business down."

Did you run for an elected union position? Were you seated at the negotiating table? Were you privy to the hundreds of hours of discussion between management and the negotiators? Were you in on the thousands of hours discussing the merits of each section's proposals and counter-proposals? Did you review the auditors report on the financial status and health of the company?

As a MIG, you have every right to vote on the TA. As a fellow colleague and pilot, you've crossed the line by questioning the integrity of the union representatives and you have no right to even suggest illegal job actions or closing the business down!

I tell you what. How about you guys refund my dues and I quit? Fair enough? I'm not going to stick around trading my health and time away from my family for prostituted wages. Why don't we close down some more corporate flight departments because all we have become is a skilled labor prostitution ring. Damn right shut the whole thing down, name one of my suggested "job actions" as illegal? Is is against the law to not fly above 350? Is it against the law to have media coverage of a terribly failed ta vote? I spent the last two weeks defending rick and mat and they come on here and down a migs like that with a legitimate concern? I don't give a damn anymore. I'm not going to be around for the next round in 2017 anyways.

 

[skanza]

I tell you what. How about you guys refund my dues and I quit? Fair enough? I'm not going to stick around trading my health and time away from my family for prostituted wages. Why don't we close down some more corporate flight departments because all we have become is a skilled labor prostitution ring. Damn right shut the whole thing down, name one of my suggested "job actions" as illegal? Not illegal per se, but unprofessional, unethical and immature. "Job actions" are a piss-poor way of 'getting your point across' to the company. Did I mention unprofessional? Is is against the law to not fly above 350? Is it against the law to have media coverage of a terribly failed ta vote? I spent the last two weeks defending rick and mat and they come on here and down a migs like that with a legitimate concern? I don't give a damn anymore. I'm not going to be around for the next round in 2017 anyways.

Whoa, you need to cool your jets brotha. There a re plenty at FO that do give a damn. They're the ones that count, not you...

 

[ArtVandalay]

If there's one thing I've learned its don't accept the first offer of anything. You gotta fight, for the right, to party. or is that a song??

 

[B19 Flyer]

Me thinks thou dost protest too much.

Why don’t you pick up the phone and call me or post your accusations on the Union’s message board? Are you afraid to confront me directly? Maybe it’s because you know your libelous statements couldn’t stand exposure to the light of day, outside the haven for cowards that this forum has become?

The facts are these: Typically, in our industry, when pilots are recalled they return at the pay scale in effect at the time of recall. In our case, returning former captains will be “red-circled” at their old captain pay, which is higher than the new F/O Primary Salary for their longevity, since recalled pilots will be returned to work at Flight Options as F/Os until they can bid and be awarded an upgrade. As a consequence, some returning former captains may not see a pay raise during the life of this contract because their old pay is “above the line,” while others may, depending on the circumstances. On the other hand, recalled F/Os, whose seat-time at the time of furlough was less that their company longevity, may see significant pay raises, depending on the spread between those two parameters.

The industry standard is you get paid for the position you can hold. The fact we were able to negotiate pay for pilots who may be recalled after January 2011 at their old salary, or the new the rate established by the new salary table, whichever is greater, is, in and of itself, quite extraordinary. In addition, we reset the time limit on the furloughed pilots right to recall to 7-years from the effective date of the agreement. This was done to give furloughed pilots more time to be recalled.

Also, given the fact furloughed pilots are currently earning $0,00--nothing--nada—zilch—at Flight Options because they are on the street, when they come back, even if they are paid only at their old salary, and regardless of the 10% raise for some, or the new F/O salary table, or whether they were once Captains or F/Os, or any other burr in this TA you may have under your saddle, regaining their old salary represents a pay raise of tens of thousands of dollars (anywhere from $60,000 to $70,000) for returning pilots. It is a raise for each and every one of them over what they are earning today, to say nothing of the health care, and vacations, etc., etc., this TA provides. We had to balance the risk of increasing the company’s expense of recalling pilots against taking care of them when they do come back. We felt that markedly increasing the cost of recalls to the company could slow, or even jeopardize their eventual return.

Finally, it was the company that insisted that the surplus captains (including Rick Maluda) should continue to be paid as captains, essentially for work they are no-longer performing. For you to question the motives of Rick Maluda, a man with more honor and integrity in the end of his little finger that most of the anonymous bomb-throwing cowards on this message board will ever possess, speaks volumes. You have no right to besmirch this man’s character. Rick stood up to help organize our Union when others, probably you included, hid in fear from management retribution. Rick has sacrificed over three years of his time, away from the flying he loves, to help negotiate a contract for you. To his own potential financial detriment (he would have been red-circled as a F/O), Rick Maluda took a stand against the companies desire to pay surplus captains a higher salary that is unrelated to their current flying status and duties as F/Os, because he felt it was not fair to the other pilots with seniority to hold the captain position who were being underpaid for doing their jobs. We lost that one, because the company was adamantly against doing what Rick and the Union advocated.

If you think you can do it better than we did, there is an election coming up in the fall, you can run for office and I’ll expect to see your name on the ballot. Oh, I forgot. You don’t want anyone to know who you are. Makes it kind of tough to run for anything other than for cover, doesn’t it?

What on earth are you doing Matt?

If it was a good T/A, you wouldn't need to lobby for it.

Me thinks thou dost protest too much.

The more you fight it Matt, the more obvious it is you know it isn't good enough, and after the hell these pilots have gone through.. don't you owe them more than that?

No secret I despise unions, but this whole dog and pony show just proves my point, over and over. Thank you.

 

[SecondSegment]

I'm waiting for Billy Mays and the Sham Wow guy to show up and try selling this one.

Forcing 10th year guys on to a Flex Sched that was rejected by new hires?

Crew Meal Policy given by the company turns out to be the big raise?

It's time for some real Democracy.

 

[William Holiday]

What on earth are you doing Matt?

If it was a good T/A, you wouldn't need to lobby for it.

Me thinks thou dost protest too much.

The more you fight it Matt, the more obvious it is you know it isn't good enough, and after the hell these pilots have gone through.. don't you owe them more than that?

No secret I despise unions, but this whole dog and pony show just proves my point, over and over. Thank you.

Fact of the matter is it's a great TA with a couple of weak sections. This has been a long protracted battle for the 1108. The fact that Matt and Rick were under tremendous pressure to bring forth a contract has not gone unnoticed by many MIGS.

BTW B-19 when did you get "Religion" I thought playing the devils advocate was your strong point.

 

[mat slinghoff]

I've seen more organized ******************** fights between monkeys at the zoo! I just lost quite a bit of respect for you on that one. Close the whole gdamn business down, the rich pricks we fly can take the bus for all I care. That scathing reply was towards a union supporter with a very legitimate concern. Why don't you tell him how long its going to be before recall with a crewing ratio of 4.0 pilots and the 16+2 schedule? Pay attention to the signs. Do you know what our charter was this week? We can outlast these guys and increase our leverage. For the pay you guys negotiated there is no reason we couldn't all have been on a 7 and 7 and get those guys back quicker. Strike without striking. The media pressure for this thing failing, peak travel season, the phenoms arriving, no flights above 350 till an adequate ta is achieved. Use some ingenuity. Some guys think this job is going to magically be better after a ta. It is going to be the same sh$t job working 14 hour day after 14 hour day, flying 500 hours a year for less than a charter pilot. As far as the coward paraphrase posting on this board that is a pretty damn harsh berating wothout all the facts. We have migs and non migs posting here all the time. In case you forgot people have been fired for voicing their opinions on your touchy feely feel good board. I'd get the facts straight before you make an accusation like that.

When we sent out the TA, a letter from me accompanied it in which I stated that, along with the Union’s Executive Board, I was strongly endorsing the TA. So let’sface it, you’ve never had any respect for me, because you immediately came on this message board and started trashing the TA I had just endorsed.

You seem to be saying we should abandon reason, judgment, a sense of the world around us and burn the house down. The fact is, I have no idea (and neither do you) who I was responding to on this message board. If he is a member in good standing, let him post his opinions on the Union’s message board and they will be responded to with the respect afforded a member who is accountable for his statements. As far as being fired for expressing your opinion, there was only one pilot who suffered that fate, as far as I know, and we got his job back.

I don’t know any other way of saying it. You are out of step here Brother and you are flailing about. Given the economic circumstances this company currently faces, we had to make some tough decisions, but they were the right decisions and there were good reasons for doing what we did. If you can get past your apparent rage and give me a call, I’m sure we can at least come to an understanding. If not, so be it.

In my book, and that of everyone I know and respect, a sure mark of cowardice is the trait so prevalent on this message board, harshly criticizing others or their accomplishments without identifying yourself and without any real justification. That behavior reminds me of the low-lifes that make obscene phone calls laced with heavy breathing, hoping to scare the innocent individual on the other end of the line. Go ahead, breath into the mouthpiece all you want and type all the nasty words you can on your computer keyboard. Faceless individuals like you, and the heroes on this board you so admire, will never, ever convince me that I should shrink from my responsibilities to the men and women who have stepped up to the plate, openly supported the Union and expressed their opinions, and worked in the bright light of day with me and the other members of the Executive Board to obtain this TA. I am honored to represent them.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Fact of the matter is it's a great TA with a couple of weak sections. This has been a long protracted battle for the 1108. The fact that Matt and Rick were under tremendous pressure to bring forth a contract has not gone unnoticed by many MIGS.

BTW B-19 when did you get "Religion" I thought playing the devils advocate was your strong point.

My religion hasn't changed. I'm only pointing out that first the union shoves it's will down that of the company, now it's doing the same to the membership.

 

[brokeflyer]

its sad that has to happen. It would save a lot of trouble if management would've got it done.

 

[William Holiday]

My religion hasn't changed. I'm only pointing out that first the union shoves it's will down that of the company, now it's doing the same to the membership.

Most don't feel that way. This is a democratic process, not autocratic. If I had spent this much time on a project I would defend it also. God knows you've spent enough time defending your position.